Posted on 05/31/2024 8:38:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
OK, serious answers only please...
I'm trying to understand exactly what felony Trump was convicted of in yesterday's verdict.
Here's what I understand (please correct me if I am wrong or inaccurate in any of my interpretation) :
1) Trump was accused of a sexual affair with Porn Star Stormy Daniels almost 20 years ago.
2) 9 years later, as Trump was planning to ran for President, he had Stormy Daniels sign a non-disclosuer agreement in exchange for paying her $130,000 for her silence.
3) Trump is being charged with falsifying business records in relation to this particular payment.
Now, here's what I'm trying to understand ( but still don't ) -- exactly what felony did Trump commit?
#1 Might be morally wrong ( assuming it were true ), but it is NOT illegal between consenting adults.
#2 Isn't illegal either. Non-disclosure agreements are routinely being signed all the time, even with regards to something similar to what Trump allegedly did.
That brings us to Number 3: Falsifying business records.
What exactly did Trump falsify?
How should the payment to Stormy Daniels be declared in order to make it NOT illegal?
Can anyone enlighten me on this? Thanks.
Again, if you don't know, please don't post.
I can understand sarcasm, but the purpose of my opening this thread is to understand what exactly made his act a felony.
The Democratic socialists know that the election of Donald Trump, with the support of the cowardly gop, could set their plans for a communist dictator ship make as much as fifty years. This is unacceptable and any means possible to prevent the forward movement of the communist party must be prevented at any cost.
“”Trump signed 34 checks to Cohen. Legal Expense””
That’s how I understand it also. The 34 counts were based on 34 pieces of paper - all written for the same reason and labeled or ASSUMED to be legal expenses since they were written to his attorney.
This is SOMETHING that no MSM will explain..there weren’t 34 separate violations of any law - just 34 lousy pieces of paper.
Most likely all 12 jurors voted for Hillary and not only resent Trump for beating Hillary, but for being able to name three Supreme Court justices. If Hillary had won, Roe would still be the law of the land.
Yep, highly likely
We still don't know that Trump knew of the payment to her before the election or had anything to do with the way the bookkeeping records with made.
Correct. 34 counts of 1 complaint.
“That was a violation of Trump’s sixth amendment right “to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusations” so that he can put on a proper defense.”
Totally, 100% agree. I think he has extremely strong cases against all the NYC court findings - once it gets to a federal court. I don’t think he’ll get ANY justice in NY state.
The only way this got to be characterized as a felony was in committing a years-old misdemeanor but doing so in order to hide another (presumably earlier) crime of some sort. To do this it is essential to identify the earlier (covered up) crime.
Think killing a witness to your having murdered someone else.
However, the judge did not require the prosecutor to ID the earlier crime. He did not allow the defense to ask witnesses what that crime might be. The judge allowed the prosecutor to allude to an earlier crime and instructed the jury to convict if they simply thought that an earlier crime MIGHT exist..
The judge had no interest in implementing the laws of the US.
The essential crime is that DJT’s accountant selected “Legal Expense” from the Quicken dropdown list, instead of “Personal Expense”, and he did it while conspiring to be elected president.
Remember Pretty Boy John Edwards, who fathered a child by his videographer while his wife was undergoing cancer chemotherapy, booked his NDA payment as a personal expense. The Feds charged him the same way, asserting it should have been booked as a legal expense. For better or for worse, the good jurors of North Carolina provided jury nullification.
RE: 1 - Violating the Federal Election Campaign Act, meaning Cohen’s payment to Daniels was a contribution to Trump’s campaign that exceeded the legal limit.
The non-disclosure agreement (NDA) between Stormy Daniels and Donald Trump was signed on October 28, 2016. The NDA was designed to prevent Daniels from publicly discussing her alleged affair with Trump. How is the desire NOT to have a public scandal considered a contribution to a campaign, expecially since Cohen was reimbursed?
RE: Falsifying other business records, after Cohen created a fake shell company to send the Daniels payment in 2016.
Did Trump approve of this fake shell company? Or did Cohen do it by himself?
RE: Violating tax laws by making false entries on tax returns related to the payment.
So, it boils down to how the NDA should have been entered on tax returns. So my question still is this — if it was entered as a legal expense for the NDA, why is this not a legal expense, and if it isn’t considered a legal expense, how should it be entered as?
RE: Oddly - and in direct violation of the Supreme Court - the jurors did not have to agree which of those three Trump was guilty of.
Apparently the jury agreed on ALL counts since there was not one count the jury did not declate him guilty of.
My bad. John Edwards booked it as a campaign expense, not personal, and paid with campaign funds.
“”into 34 separate payments, then Alvin Bragg considers each of the 34 subpayments 34 separate felonies, even if they all are for the same $130,000 paid for the non-disclosure agreement.””
That’s the same way I see it also!!! I was a full charge bookkeeper in a former life - years of it. My job was to write the checks for bills submitted and to classify them in the check journal and post that and all other journals affecting a financial condition to the General Ledger at the end of each month - YEARS BEFORE COMPUTERS - unless directed to do anything different from what seemed normal - checks to an attorney - legal fees..checks to a CPA - accounting fees etc. etc. In the Trump organization a bookkeeper saw checks written to an attorney and posted those as legal expenses.
Some noise by was made by the MSM about xxx # of “vouchers” and xx # of “invoices” but I never heard an explanation or what that meant! Who wrote the invoices or vouchers???
Was Trump’s name/initials on any piece of paper submitted for payment?
Orange Man Bad! That’s all you need to know.
The jury was instructed that they could each pick a different crime and still convict him. The democrat hack judge didn’t want to take any chance on a hung jury or, heaven forbid, an acquittal.
Whether it gets overturned based on multiple reversible errors doesn’t matter, because any appeals won’t be decided until long after the election.
RE: Even after conviction, nobody knows what the underlying crime was.
Well, that is the reason why I started this thread — to UNDERSTAND what the underlying crime was.
I told her yesterday, “so what?’ come get me. I’m not well heeled enough to fight them on their turf, I’ll just be another political prisoner. I don’t care. I’ve lived, I wont last long in their system, and I don’t want to live under their tyranny. So big deal, no great loss to the world.
“Apparently the jury agreed on ALL counts”
Don’t think so. There was no specific charge of tax evasion, for example. They only had to conclude he had done at least one of the three so he could be found guilty of the charge Bragg brought. The others were NEVER tested in court.
Seems like a HUGE violation of the Constitution. And the Supreme Court has, in the past, said the jury needs to find each predicate crime unanimously. But they were not polled on it because the judge said they didn’t need agreement...and because they would have no authority to find Trump guilty of a federal crime.
“”Legally speaking paying your lawyer isn’t a legal fee””
What else would it be? Why would anyone pay a lawyer if not for legal advice or docs? Is paying a CPA firm an accounting fee?
Falsifying records
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