Posted on 01/17/2023 8:36:27 AM PST by Kazan
America’s infatuation with Ukraine and Zelensky (the Cocaine Comedian) is starting to wane, but most politicians and the public continue to believe the lie that Ukraine is an innocent country being bludgeoned by a communist Russia ruled by a dictator. Oh yeah. Don’t forget. Russia is suffering massive military and economic losses and just can’t live without U.S. investment and Europe’s technology. It is all nonsense, but if you are living in the United States and try to have a reasoned discussion with the fan boys and girls cheering for Ukraine, you would find more success talking to a brick wall.
But cracks are starting to show. One of my brilliant readers sent me the link to Michael Brendan Dougherty‘s latest in the National Review (a conservative icon in the magazine world), What Have We Bargained for in Ukraine? I encourage you to read the entire piece. More importantly, read the comments. That will give you some insight into the insanity that still reigns with regards to sending billions of dollars in money and materiel to Ukraine.
Here are the salient portions of the piece:
My friend and colleague Matthew Continetti writes that “securing America’s position and freedom’s future without direct intervention and for a rounding error in the federal budget is a strategic bargain. Ukraine needs more, not less, U.S. aid, and it needs it now.” In Commentary in November, Noah Rothman wrote that “Kyiv’s victories are our victories, too, insofar as they advance a core American national interest: preserving the stable European covenant that has blessed Western powers with the longest, most durable peace on the Continent in the modern age.”
This view holds that for pennies on the dollar, the U.S. has been able to preserve a democracy threatened by an authoritarian regime, cripple a rival military, strengthen the NATO alliance, prevent Vladimir Putin from an inevitable invasion of NATO territory, and scare off Xi Jinping from ever messing with Taiwan. . . .
Except, none of this is quite true. Crippling a rival military is only worthwhile when you have a strategic reason for doing so, and we conspicuously lack one. The NATO alliance’s duties have been radically expanded with no radical expansion in the share of the alliance’s burdens shouldered by Europe. Ukraine’s ultra-nationalist project is at odds with the democratic and liberal-internationalist values that are used to sell the conflict abroad. The conflict’s financial and moral costs to the U.S. have been growing for nearly a decade, and taking on Ukraine as a permanent dependent will grow them even more. The arc of the conflict is just as likely to encourage as to discourage Xi in his pursuit of Taiwan, given the ways in which our enmeshment in Europe will deplete our attention, resources, and will to be the world’s cop. And finally, no conflict in this blood-stained area of the globe is a mom-and-pop bingo game in which you can cash out your modest investments at any time; Vladimir Putin and Russia have a say in how this ends.
There you have it. A prominent conservative writer who was a strong supporter of Ukraine (and still insists that Putin is some sort of Darth Vader who enjoys borscht) is conceding that America’s strategy is based on a lie.
Over at Neo-Con central — i.e., the Institute for the Study of War — the stenographers masquerading as analysts grudgingly concede that Russia captured Soledar, but then proceeds to focus on their own fantastical speculation that there is political strife in Russia surrounding the Wagner Group’s success in the battle for Soledar. They write nothing about the strategic significance of the fall of Soledar, nothing about the growing Russian pressure on Bakhmut to the south of Soledar and nothing about Ukraine’s catastrophic casualties. It is genuinely bizarre.
You called it correctly, took 27 more seconds. What has happened to this place? It is almost like LetsGo Brandon came in here and set off a stink bomb.
If you do not adore a hundred billion for Zelinsky, you are Putin’s puppy, according to some of these loonies, who infiltrated long ago...
Who controls them is what I want to know.
God only knows...
Grinding these morons to a pulp will be easy, and fun.
Dealing with the repercussions brought about as a result of the dishonest, reckless behavior by the US govt. will not.
All the behaviour is classic Alinsky’s Rules antagonism.
I agree.
And the thread you linked was a classic example of these people’s egregious tactics.
I’ve seen them calling people who don’t support our giving funds to Zelensky (including me) “filthy Bolsheviks” and other such evil accusations.
I seriously hope this will be reined in. These people act like Obama’s sycophants.
If there are such laws, then the U.S. would be held to those laws, would they not? We were providing weapons to Libya rebel forces, were we not. Most likely doing the same for rebel forces in Syria also. But that's okay, because we are the good guys, even when they are corrupt & lawless, according to you.
Russia was providing defensive weapons so that the Ukrainian citizens could protect themselves from the terrorism they were facing at the hands of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion/Regiment of the Ukrainian National Guard; Special Tasks Patrol Police Branch (2014) that you all poo poo as irrelevant & immaterial, providing you even recognize then as being neo-Nazis.
Translation: anyone who disagrees with me must be ignorant, because I am all-knowing
Incorrect translation.
You are idiots because you refuse to accept the realities.
These are not things I made up, they are not even things I have discovered. They are things that others who have a far greater knowledge of that region then I cared to ever have, who have brought them to the discussion.
In fact, I was, for a brief period, a supporter of Ukraine & Zelenskyy. But I was still looking for a peaceful resolution to avoid a kinetic war, because our corrupt usurper in chief had already proven himself to be incompetent to do so. He couldn't even lead an orderly & safe withdrawal from Afghanistan.
There was such a path available to avoid a kinetic war, and the path was to force Ukraine to accept the Minsk Agreements to stop the hostilities in eastern Ukraine against the Russian speaking Ukrainian citizens.
But U.S. refused to take that available option because they desired & wanted to engage in a proxy war with Russia, using Ukraine as the battlefield, and the Ukrainian people as the fodder & the combatants, and Zelenskyy agreed to that arrangement.
It was at that point that I no longer supported Ukraine or Zelenskyy, for Zelenskyy had just proven that he is as evil as the entire Democrat Party, and a majority of the Republican Party.
How you can support a man like Zelenskyy who willingly puts his nation, and more importantly, her citizens in harms way is beyond my comprehension to be quite honest.
Perhaps you can tell me how you live with yourself knowing that you have promoted the death & destruction they are now facing.
Free Republic for you, but not for us, right?
So how is that story NOT news...that the U.S. has started training the Ukrainian Army in light and heavy armor tactics in Germany? And the source is The Washington Post, and not some random v-blog.
You know, that big news paper in Washington DC that over 60 million people read?
Explain to me how that's "fake news" in your opinion.
“If there are such laws, then the U.S. would be held to those laws, would they not?”
Yes, they should.
“But that’s okay, because we are the good guys, even when they are corrupt & lawless, according to you.”
Where did I say that? If you can’t quote me saying it, then you are just falsely attributing statements to me, which is what liars do. You’re not a liar, are you?
“Russia was providing defensive weapons so that the Ukrainian citizens could protect themselves from the terrorism they were facing at the hands of the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion/Regiment of the Ukrainian National Guard”
Azov was not part of the Ukrainian National Guard at that time. And Azov did not possess any combat aircraft, yet Russia had provided the “separatists” with anti-aircraft weapons (which they used to shoot down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, so there is no use denying it). So your excuse is blatantly false. Russia was providing them with military weapons of war, to fight the Ukrainian regular military, which is fomenting a revolution in a foreign country.
I am completely on board with a backpage for the Ukraine Fanboy articles...
Yes I agree - but what I would really like to know is who controls these morons and why are they sent here.
If you cannot answer your own question, you do not belong here.
Furthermore they were not separatists, they sought and got autonomy and remained a part of Ukraine. It wasn't until Sept. of 2022 that they decided they had to separate from Ukraine, because autonomy was not bringing them the peace they desired all along.
Did you even bother to read the links I provided you? Apparently not.
As for the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17, it's what is usually referred to as the fog of war. We have done the same thing, even to our own soldiers. Just another reason why war should be the last resort when all other options have been exhausted, which was not the case with. In fact, Ukraine had absolutely no intention of living up to the Minsk agreements they had signed. They have admitted that the only reason was to buy time to train combatants and secure armaments.
But I notice you ignored a lot of what I have said because you do not have counter-arguments, which is nothing more than a form of dishonesty.
Yes, they should.
You only say that now because you more or less have to. I on the other hand do not think we need to subject ourselves to the whims of foreign powers.
Where did I say that? If you can’t quote me saying it, then you are just falsely attributing statements to me, which is what liars do. You’re not a liar, are you?
I never said you said that. It was quite obvious that I was mockingly answering for you & the rest of the cheerleaders, because after all, you brought up the subject. Perhaps you had forgotten that we had done the very same thing, only there was no hostility until we introduced the weapons.
I think a lot of them are just very old and behave the way they do out of some stunted form of “patriotism”. They live their entire lives as though they’re in an old black and white John Wayne movie.
My elderly parents support the former state of Ukraine yet know little to nothing about any of it. If they don’t see it on “Fox and Friends” it just didn’t happen. They’re essentially zombies.
I live in northern Michigan.
I went to Kiev and Crimea to try to do business in 2007-8, three times.
Everyone there is crooked and on the take. It is like Russia with no rules. Most senior executives I met made it known that he had a pistol in his desk.
Our billionaire owner, whose mother built charity orphanages in Ukraine, decided it was just too crooked for the company to be able to do business, even though there are plenty of attractive projects.
The Ukranian’s corruption ruins their own success. That is why the Brandons fit in so well with them, because Brandons are corrupt to the bone also. Now they have hoodwinked the whole USA and NATO.
You go!!! Lets ditch these paid propaganda folk.
“Wrong Yet Again”
Actually your own source proves that I am correct and you are wrong:
“was formally incorporated into the National Guard on 11 November 2014.”
From YOUR link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Regiment
Malaysian Flight 17 was shot down by pro-Russian “separatists” using Russian-provided military hardware on July 17, 2014, so 4 months before Azov was part of the Ukrainian National Guard.
Maybe you should try reading the sources you cite before using them to avoid these embarassments?
“Furthermore they were not separatists, they sought and got autonomy and remained a part of Ukraine.”
Wrong again. Both the Donetsk and Luhansk “peoples’ Soviets” had declared their independence from Ukraine in May of 2014, which made them “separatists”, if we want to be charitable and not just call them “rebels” or “terrorists”.
“As for the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17, it’s what is usually referred to as the fog of war. We have done the same thing, even to our own soldiers.”
Immaterial. The relevant fact is that it would not have been possible for the flight to have been shot down unless Russia was already providing military hardware to the “separatists”, and providing hardware well beyond what would have been necessary to “protect” them from the Azov paramilitary group, as you claimed, since Azov possessed no combat aircraft which would have required anti-aircraft defenses. So this proves Russia was supplying military arms to them to equip them to fight the Ukrainian regular military instead, since they were the ones who actually DID have aircraft.
“But I notice you ignored a lot of what I have said because you do not have counter-arguments...”
No I simply ignored what was irrelevant, and will continue to do so.
“You only say that now because you more or less have to.”
Again with the mind reading. Mind reading isn’t a valid argument.
“I never said you said that.”
You certainly did. You said, and I quote:
“But that’s okay, because we are the good guys, even when they are corrupt & lawless, according to you.”
That “according to you” is a claim, a claim that I have made such a statement, even though you know I have not.
“I was mockingly answering for you”
Oh, I see. The old Adam Schiff defense. Yeah, that didn’t fly when he tried it and it still won’t. You lied, plain and simple.
I think we have been infiltrated!!!
Agree!!
Names I have never seen before...
I think we have been infiltrated!!!
Agree!!
Names I have never seen before...
Got proof of that?
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