Posted on 05/02/2022 11:47:20 AM PDT by ganeemead
Italian television interview with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov
Ah, you’re back to The Saker, I see.
But we’ve got the Bidens, Heels Up Harris, Hussein Obama and Hillary Clinton ...
But I still contend that it's not our fight. We are spending and deploying weapons that this nation has contributed for the defense of this country, not foreign countries. as soon as we stop protecting Ukraine, the sooner this war can end. If it ends with Russia providing security to the Donbas region of Ukraine and the Crimea, then fine. If Russia keeps advancing further into Ukraine then we can weigh our options at that time.
I am far more concerned about the invasion of the U.S. along our southern border that is destabilizing this country even further, then I am concerned with making Ukraine a Democratic country. Especially considering that Ukraine's leader, Zelenskyy, has already adopted the New World Order dogma and has implemented most of their dictates, such as credit scoring and invasion into freedoms that a true Democracy tries to maintain.
I never thought I would link to a Guardian article, yet they do bring up the realities of what this war brings, even though it is a month old now:
How Ukraine has become the crucible of the new world order
I am somewhat surprised that someone like you is supporting this, when we have an addlebrained stooge running this country who is, at best, perhaps unable to even comprehend what his actions mean to this nation in the future. Since his election is in real doubt, and all these people on both sides of the aisle who refuse any discussion, let alone, an investigation of the real discrepancies that occurred in the 2020 election, only adds to the suspicions of the election being stolen.
Are you a Never-Trumper by any chance? I don't want to believe that is the case, but the only other option is you are so blinded that you fail to see what is really transpiring here.
I for one have lost faith in the leadership of this nation, and definitely see vast corruption within both political parties, that I no longer believe they have the best interest of this nation or her citizens, as their top priorities. They both care only for their own enrichment and the citizens have merely become their marks.
“If it ends with Russia providing security to the Donbas region of Ukraine and the Crimea, then fine. If Russia keeps advancing further into Ukraine then we can weigh our options at that time.”
You know Russia and its history; it is not in Ukraine to “provide security” to the Donbas and Crimea, the latter of which it illegally annexed back in 2014. Annexing another country’s territory is not “providing security” to it; it is conquest. If Russia was only concerned with “providing security” to Donbas, then why is Russia recognizing LPR and DNR as independent and autonomous states? Why is Russia moving west, way beyond Crimea and Donbas, and encroaching on and threatening Odessa? Why did a Russian spokesperson say that the goal is to take over the entirety of the northern Black Sea coast, thus shutting off Ukraine entirely from any deep water access? Russia is ALREADY advancing further into Ukraine.
“I am somewhat surprised that someone like you is supporting this, when we have an addlebrained stooge running this country who is, at best, perhaps unable to even comprehend what his actions mean to this nation in the future.”
I support Ukraine defending itself in spite of the imbecilic Biden; believe me, I wish to God we had Trump in office instead of Biden. But a Ukraine not under the Russian thumb, and not a stooge or satellite of Russia, is very much in our national interest.
“Are you a Never-Trumper by any chance? I don’t want to believe that is the case, but the only other option is you are so blinded that you fail to see what is really transpiring here.”
I’ve supported Trump since he walked down the escalator in 2015, but I honestly did not think he was electable then. By Spring, 2016 I knew he WAS electable, and I embraced his candidacy wholeheartedly. Remember, in 2016 the MAIN goal was to keep Hillary Clinton out of the White House, and I would have supported almost anyone to achieve that goal.
Blinded? I’m a realist. And I don’t embrace late night radio talk show conspiracy theories. I will oppose anyone and anything, and support anyone and anything that protects and defends the United States and advances its interests. Someone in another post waxed indignant about the US being top dog. Well, if there is to be a top dog I sure as hell want it to be the US! Who do you want? China? How do you think the US will fare if China is the world’s top dog?
“I for one have lost faith in the leadership of this nation, and definitely see vast corruption within both political parties, that I no longer believe they have the best interest of this nation or her citizens, as their top priorities. They both care only for their own enrichment and the citizens have merely become their marks.”
I agree with your concerns on this. But I’m not going to throw in the towel and wail in despair. I don’t believe in surrenders, and never have; it is not how I am wired: It’s just not in my DNA.
Well, that makes two of us. I am in bed by 10 P.M. every night, and up at 6:30 A.M or earlier.
You know Russia and its history; it is not in Ukraine to “provide security” to the Donbas and Crimea, the latter of which it illegally annexed back in 2014. Annexing another country’s territory is not “providing security” to it; it is conquest. If Russia was only concerned with “providing security” to Donbas, then why is Russia recognizing LPR and DNR as independent and autonomous states? Why is Russia moving west, way beyond Crimea and Donbas, and encroaching on and threatening Odessa? Why did a Russian spokesperson say that the goal is to take over the entirety of the northern Black Sea coast, thus shutting off Ukraine entirely from any deep water access? Russia is ALREADY advancing further into Ukraine. Yes, I also know that Ukraine has been a part of Russia for centuries, and that is even more true when it comes to Eastern Ukraine. Do you know that?
You can come back with the retort that Ukraine dissolved its unity with Russia 3 years after the USSR finally imploded in 1988. It was in 1991 that Ukraine finally broke away.
Ukraine has had a spotty existence of 31 years over many centuries. It wasn't until the U.S. fomented the coup in 2014 that Russia first moved in to annex the Crimea. At that same time 2, Donetsk and Luhansk, regions within Ukraine, considered the Donbas region, chose to break away from Ukraine and become autonomous. It wasn't until 2022 that Russia formerly recognized them as such. Since 2014 theere has been fighting and killing by the Nazis in the Donbas region. These are not neo-Nazis, as they claim, they have been Nazis since WWII.
This is not as simplistic as some here seem to believe, and it's much deeper than just Russia invading Ukraine. Russia got tired of not being able to use diplomatic avenues to resolve the bloodshed in the Donbas region. The same applies to Odessa also. I also do not believe that Russia has any intentions to reconstitute the USSR. They don't have the capability to do so even if they really wanted to.
They want to cutoff Ukraine from deep water access to ensure they are not a threat to them.
We have enough problems of our own to concern ourselves about Ukraine wanting to keep all of what they consider is theirs, even though it hasn't been theirs for centuries. Our southern border is like a sieve, in reality wide open, to invaders from around the globe. In addition, and we have our second usurper controlling the levers of power in this country.
We need to stop pretending we are the guardians of the world, and focus on being guardians of our nation and its health ans well being, along with her legal citizens, first and foremost right now.
Otherwise, we will find ourselves as just another aspect of the New World Order, with no freedoms whatsoever.
In other words, drop the emotions, and start really thinking of the real consequences we face. We cannot afford to prop up these obvious corrupt nations claiming to be democracies, but in reality are funneling implements for graft and corruption making evil even more powerful.
In the context of US politiics, the term "bicameral" means stupid AND evil. The only reason there could ever be for ANYTHING to pass 517-10 in our congress is blackmail.
So my 2 favorites were Reagan & Trump was the best. I loved Reagan, but he made a major mistake by signing the Amnesty Bill. At least he recognized and acknowledged his big mistake. But I was in the first house market when Carter was in office, and every time I had enough for a down payment, it wasn't enough with his runaway inflation. When Reagan finally got us out of that inflation spiral I was finally able to get my first house. 🙂
Liked both Bushes, at least at first, but in hindsight became disenchanted with both. But that was after their terms that I found out more about both Bushes that turned me against them.
“You can come back with the retort that Ukraine dissolved its unity with Russia 3 years after the USSR finally imploded in 1988. It was in 1991 that Ukraine finally broke away.”
Why would I do that? I never even mentioned a date — any date — for Ukraine’s formal declaration of independence from the dissolved USSR. But I know it was in 1991.
“It wasn’t until the U.S. fomented the coup in 2014 that Russia first moved in to annex the Crimea.”
Coup? Yanukovich went against the Ukrainian Parliament’s pro-Europe measures and aligned himself with Russia, which was very much opposed to Parliament’s measures. That started the Euromaidan protests in late November, 2013. The protests continued and in January, 2014 they grew more intense.
Parliament began preparing articles of impeachment against Yanukovich (or whatever they are called in Ukraine, but it is the same thing). There is indeed some evidence that Victoria Nuland of the Obama/Biden administration was inserting herself into the discussions. On February 20, 2014 Putin ordered the invasion of Crimea, and began the process of clandestinely infiltrating special ops specialists into Crimea. Thus, on February 20, 2014 Russia began its annexation operation of Crimea, and on February 22 and 23, 2014 Russian troops and special forces began moving into Crimea through Novorossiysk.
On the late evening of February 21 or the early morning of February 22, 2014 Yanukovich left Kiev with Russian Spetsnaz assistance and went to Kharkiv in northeast Ukraine. On February 22, 2014 Parliament voted to remove Yanukovich and set new elections for several weeks in the future. Putin met with his cabinet to coordinate bringing
Yanukovich to Moscow (he got there on or about February 28, 2014), and to begin “returning” Crimea to Russia.
On February 27, 2014 Russian special ops troops took control of Crimean government buildings and the Russian occupation of Crimea began in earnest, and on March 18, 2014 Russia illegally annexed Crimea.
In March, 2014 Russia began to amass troops on its border with Ukraine at or near Rostov, and also near Belgorod, just north of the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Some of these troops would move into Ukraine to support the separatists.
And the war was on (and this was in 2014).
So, this latest Russian invasion is just the segue to the first invasion.
“In other words, drop the emotions, and start really thinking of the real consequences we face.”
You must be directing that comment to someone else, because I don’t let emotion factor in to any of this. I read and look to history, and that tells a lot. Russia has always been insecure and paranoid, and a bully. That’s just fact.
“We cannot afford to prop up these obvious corrupt nations claiming to be democracies, but in reality are funneling implements for graft and corruption making evil even more powerful.”
Welcome to the real world. If there is a country on this planet that is not corrupt to some degree then I want to know who it is. So, you can’t let the presence of corruption influence your judgment as to what is best for the interests and security of the United States, because it will drive you to strong drink.
Every few generations there is an alarm of a New World Order, to be run by this cabal or junta or that group or consortium. Such alarms are as old as nation states and governments. And they are the grist of late night radio talk shows that also dwell on space aliens and Bigfoot. All the while, we have real threats and real issues to deal with that more directly affect us.
Yes, coup. Do you not see the parallels here? Think Antifa & BLM mostly peaceful riots, while J6 protests were deemed an insurrection and Trump being accused of a coup attempt. You see, I am using the same language here but you don't even see the connections staring you in the face. If that was a coup attempt, then what took place in Ukraine defines a coup in even more solid terms, as they were successful. Those Madian protests involved who do you think? Nazis within eastern Ukraine? Very possible and even highly probable, and yes Victoria Nuland was there stoking the flames and handing out cookies to the protestors. Does that remind you of anything? Like perhaps supporting the Antifa & BLM protestors and raising money for protestors to get out of jail and pay for lawyers? Surely you see the fingerprints of the Democrats & the Deep State (more rightly unelected bureaucrats with more control then they should have ever been allowed to possess).
Now don't get me wrong, I think Viktor Yanukovych was absolutely a corrupt person, and even I supported the protests at first. Viktor Yanukovych was actually for the EU-partnership, until the last minute when he decided against any EU entanglement, but he didn't turn to a Putin alliance either. He and Putin had a falling out when he complained to Putin about the price of Russian gas. If I remember correctly, that was around or about 2010. When Viktor Yanukovych was elected he was the most popular politician in Ukraine actually.
Parliament began preparing articles of impeachment against Yanukovich (or whatever they are called in Ukraine, but it is the same thing).
I can find no evidence that supports that claim, but I will take it as you state, because I can not find any evidence to either confirm or refute that statement. But it really plays no part because it obviously never materialized, and Viktor Yanukovych and his 2 sons had already decided to run for cover into Russia. I assume they are all still there. What I did find was that the powers that rushed into the void issued arrest warrants for crimes against humanity due to the number of people killed by sniper fire, even though to this day no evidence has ever been produced as to who those snipers actually were.
Russia has always been insecure and paranoid, and a bully. That’s just fact.
I wouldn't go that far as to say they were always insecure and paranoid. But they were always looking to enlarge their sphere of influence. I think we have been just as guilty, only we have used our wealth to influence people and have expanded that influence with major strings attached. So, is one method more righteous over the other? I see the same outcomes, bullies bullying their weaker neighbors & "allies", mainly for our benefit over their benefit.
I noticed that you totally ignored the New World Order threat. Perhaps you take that as just conspiracy nonsense. Batter look into that much harder.
“I noticed that you totally ignored the New World Order threat. Perhaps you take that as just conspiracy nonsense. Batter look into that much harder.”
Yeah; and you know why? Because the ogre of a New World Order has been trotted out for millennia. And it is good or evil depending on one’s interests.
The Pax Romana was described as a New World Order. The League of Nations was described as a New World Order. The United Nations was described as a New World Order. George Bush I addressed a New World Order in a speech in 1990. The little dwarf in Iran spoke of a New World Order dominated by islam.
Which one are you terrified of?
Just curious: Where in Louisiana are you? I have long and deep roots there (especially NOLA). I lived there for many years. Married a NOLA girl. Her family in NOLA go back to the 1700s with the French.
Southeastern North Shore
I used to sail in Ponchartrain, then through the Rigolets and out into the Gulf. Some good restaurants near the SYC before fires took them.
It's a conspiracy for sure, but it no longer is a theory. You are seeing it in action, in our country with open borders and the great flow from the south from every part of the world.
Abortion rate by country - look who is number one: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/abortion-rates-by-country
All of the above is better viewed in dynamic.
“You know, the one where Klaus Schwab says you will own nothing and you will be happy.”
His comment about “useless eaters” and the ideal world population being 1 billion, of which half of them are nothing more than worker bees for the other 500 million, is not new. Crackpots have always trotted out some wild “ideal” of one sort or another. And on the other side, insecurity and fear always find a scapegoat or bogeyman to blame. It is as old as Man.
Do we have problems here in the US? You bet we do. But WE created them because WE allowed them to germinate and take root; because we became too complacent, too sure of ourselves. We allowed our hubris to get the better of us. And if we continue to fart around we will allow it to destroy us. The solution is here, within ourselves.
This all-powerful and monolithic globalist hegemon that has so many quaking in their boots is as solid as a cloud, because it was created out of air and gas. Don’t surrender to such a bogeyman, but recognize it for what it is: Just the most recent creation of fear and insecurity.
But the real problem lies with not enough people taking the New World Order threat too seriously. After all, this has been a threat throughout the ages, right?
What you do not acknowledge, is that a lot of these actions, were successful to a point. That point was reached when their power limit had been exceeded and they lost control. From that point on their power receded over time. In that meantime, they were the rulers, and they did enslave their conquered adversaries.
As you alluded to, we were complicit in our own demise, by complacently relying upon our leaders to react to rise up against threats. Thereby, allowing corruption to become ingrained within our own government. Recent indicators prove that corruption has so infected our leaders, that our leaders are not only unwilling to rise up against this threat but are actually assisting them. In return, they have been rewarded with even greater wealth and promises of a position in their plan of domination.
In turn, they are breaking the wealth of many who they fear just might awaken the masses in an attempt to seriously challenge them.
By siding with them on issues such as the false narrative that we must secure the Democracy of nations like Ukraine, and the integrity of their borders at all costs. Up to and including an event such as nuclear war.
Those are the people playing right into the traps they created to further divide us while they continue to drain us our wealth and freedoms. They are aware that a majority will indeed support that concept, even though it is such a ludicrous claim that they care so much about securing Ukraine and protecting her borders, to anyone paying real attention as to what has been transpiring. That is most certainly is not their real intent at all. It's yet another method to garner support and assist in their truly evil aspirations.
Good vs, evil is indeed as old as man, so I ask; Why are you siding with evil in their plan? Do you actually believe you are taking the righteous and moral action? Do you actually think their intentions are as noble as they articulate?
Like I said they not only have the wealth, but they also have the power and the ability to pull off their scheme. They have unfettered access to technology and the tools to carry forth their plans.
Do we really know just how much technology has advanced? Do we know what tools have been developed and are in their possession? Why are they so insistent that every one on the planet must receive mRNA shots? Are there substances in those shots that may actually allow then to control human beings, or worse yet make them more susceptible to diseases by ruination of their God given immune systems?
They don't care about Ukraine and her citizens, anymore than they care about America or her citizens. In fact, we are all just more impediments to their ambitions.
We need to, as citizens, rise up and demand that the fighting must stop now, and quit aiding them in their conquest. Is that not more beneficial to the Ukrainian people than placing them in even more danger?
I find it rather amusing, or would if it did not carry such calamitous ramifications, that you see the bogeyman aspect of the New World Order, but you see Russia as a real boogieman that must be stopped in its tracks. Russia does not have the wherewithal to even be somewhat successful in reconstituting the USSR. Unless of course, China suddenly sided with Russia. But China is not really interested in being an ally of Russia. China is more interested in Russia destroying itself with a proxy war with the U.S., because that is how the Chinese defeat their foes.
When Russia has depleted enough of its armaments and wealth, and the U.S. has done the same, which we are doing at rapid speed, they themselves will move in to destroy both and claim the sole superpower role in the world.
Neither of those choices sit well with me, nor should they sit well with you either.
You are a bright person, which is why it confuses me to no end that you think world domination is just such a nonsensical endeavor as to completely be dismissed as an impossible task. It is a real possibility now more than it has ever been in the history of mankind. Either that or the total annihilation of mankind in its attempt.
I have been quite vocal in my position that I oppose US booths on the ground in Ukraine and US helmets in the air above Ukraine; but I have no problem with arming Ukraine.
Russia is a bully, and bullies will continue to bully until they are stopped. They can be stopped several ways, including literally and figuratively running out of gas, so they quit; physically stopping them and driving them away; physically killing them and making the survivors quit; when their people get tired of the crap and they get rid of their leaders. But stopped, they must be.
Because a bully is forever looking for a victim, the weaker the better; and if one victim succumbs too easily, the bully is encouraged to go after another. Until he is stopped.
There are some here on FR who say that Ukraine is a pawn in this New World Order that has so many here on FR in a panic. They say Ukraine’s corruption is part of this NWO, or a condition of it, so they cheer on Russia’s invasion and hope for Ukraine’s destruction. But, is not Russia itself corrupt? It has scores of corrupt oligarchs, and the biggest one is named Vladimir Putin, a former bureaucrat of the Soviet state who is now, by some accounts, one of if not THE richest man in the world! If there is such a NWO comprised of conniving oligarchs and globalists Vladimir Putin is certainly one of them. Yet, he is cheered on here on FR. Isn’t that curious?
Oligarchs or globalists or madmen or anyone seeking domination COUNT ON people being sheep, cowering in fear. They have NO POWER unless the people give it to them and allow them to keep it!
Here’s another thing, and it applies to anyone who seeks to dominate or subdue you and enslave you: NEVER SURRENDER! If you surrender, you have been defeated; because surrender requires choice, a conscious decision, and you have chosen to BE defeated. Fight them, and make THEM surrender. If you are killed in the fight, then you’re just dead; but you are NOT defeated.
I’m old school. I don’t believe in surrenders. I’m just not wired that way; it’s not in my DNA.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.