Posted on 05/13/2021 3:28:26 PM PDT by WinstonSmith1984
"As of today, unvaccinated soldiers can not take a pass and can not take Leave (which is earned from time served). And, according to our source, unvaccinated soldiers are now considered non-deployable."
(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...
witney69, the vaccine is OPTIONAL by DOD reg. If it were not OPTIONAL then I’d be with you. It is also OPTIONAL by law because it is experimental. Is it legal for a local Commander to restrict service members who decline to take an OPTIONAL vaccine?
I knew the army was going downhill when they approved those good-looking purple berets.
Military personnel are required to receive certain FDA “approved” vaccines or immunizations, or provide proof of prior immunity.
Covid-19 vaccine is an experimental, emergency use vaccine. The normal safety trials have been waived. It is against federal law to coerce anybody to take an experimental medication. It requires a fully informed consent.
It’s like comparing Apples and Aircraft Carriers.
Sue the idiot!
“Is it legal for a local Commander to restrict service members who decline to take an OPTIONAL vaccine?”
The optional part is only for civilians, not the military if decided it will be mandatory. Then it opens up another choice. Factually, the moderna was originally selected for use for the military and a lot of the original supplies were shipped to use overseas. Thus the shortage here at home.
It is a requirement for military troops to be world wide qualified. If they are at risk for a domestic illness or to get it while deployed, then they can’t be deployed. So what it really comes down to is get vaccinated, or get separated. The commander will make it into a medical requirement as long as it is in an optional situation. In other words, if they refuse the vaccine, they are opting to lose the WWC status, and will be separated. This is why they won’t allow leave or off post privileges except to those that live out there. They are protecting the machine.
Some might call it a loophole. However it is not being used for political purposes, but for mission needs. So they are not forcing the member to take the vaccine, they are separating them if that’s the choice “they make.”
In addition, the law people are not seeing is 10 U.S. Code § 1107a - Emergency use products:
WAIVER BY THE PRESIDENT.—
(1) In the case of the administration of a product authorized for emergency use under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act to members of the armed forces, the condition described in section 564(e)(1)(A)(ii)(III) of such Act and required under paragraph (1)(A) or (2)(A) of such section 564(e), designed to ensure that individuals are informed of an option to accept or refuse administration of a product, may be waived only by the President only if the President determines, in writing, that complying with such requirement is not in the interests of national security.
That last sentence does allow the soldier to so no but the action of doing so will get him separated as even the president can’t waive its use. So the choice is the member’s.
wy69
Federal court ruling circa 2007 on the anthrax vaccine ruled that a non-FDA approved vaccine cannot be forced on service personnel.
I imagine a lot of enlisted are researching that rule, right now.
A very accurate description of management
not command, by matrices.
Okay...but this is optional by DOD regulation and a local commander is making his own decision... again I think this is an illegal act by a local commander. If the DOD makes it mandatory then so be it... but they can’t play mind games make it optional and then say we are going separate you if you don’t comply. That makes it mandatory. We...the US Govt... have the power to make it mandatory once it goes through the full trials. If you are following rules and regulations while enlisted you can’t be separated for not taking a vaccine which your command tells you is optional. “Take this or get out” is not the way it works... it will allow people to leave in combat situations and deployments and not face dangers in tougher times. That is why we have the UCMJ. A soldier could just declare at any given time they are not going to take a vaccine that is being offered and walk away.... you won’t have anyone to fight... Something tells me that is the true point. I am beginning to fear that our senior leadership in the active duty force has been corrupted by the Marxists.
Exactly. Just like the preposterous sales goals big business imposes and the constant pressure to meet quarterly bottom lines. Everybody gets ulcers or heart attacks. FTS.
Fort Campbell is “post,” not a “base.”
“Fort Campbell is “post,” not a “base.” Does that change anything legally and morally.
“...and then say we are going separate you if you don’t comply. That makes it mandatory.”
No it doesn’t. When a person signs up for the job, they are briefed and taught about the responsibilities they are going into. If a person is a threat to the requirement of the mission, then he/she shouldn’t be there. The mission is there for the protection of the country. The mission comes first. If a person chooses to not complete the mission by putting himself/herself in jeopardy or their peers, the member in this case chooses to do so. And the member is aware of what the outcome will be before that decision is final. They are briefed.
Fort Campbell is a major deployment hub for the Army. It is the home of 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne), 160th Special Aviation Operations Regiment, 52nd Ordnance Group (EOD), 406th AFSBn, with support from the Blanchfield Army Community Hospital, 531st Hospital Center, 101st Sustainment Brigade and overseen by US Army Garrison Fort Campbell. Their job is war. There is no other way to consider what they do.
It is the home of the Army’s most-deployed contingency forces. If a cog in the machine is broken, it must be removed. They don’t have the time, the use of your money, or the loss of an operational piece of the mission to wait for someone to get well or take the chance of passing it, or getting it, downrange. And replacing people (stop loss) costs training needs, last minute fills possibly from another post, and lost time. These problems can be the difference from completing or failing a mission.
The member had the option and was well aware of the needs. Otherwise he/she would have been separated before at their request or at the end of their enlistment. Again, it is their choice.
wy69
wy69, it doesn’t work that way. I can tell you are part of the machine and well read. If the vaccine is safe and effective and required then it needs to be mandatory. Once enlisted people are obligated to comply with rules and regulations. We can’t get to a point where we offer people a way not to comply with rules and regulations and get out of an enlistment without punishment simply by not re-volunteering. Additionally we all know that this virus poses almost no risk to service members. Volunteer to take the vaccine or separate... this is Orwellian social BS. If the vaccine is safe and effective then make it mandatory if it is experimental then offer as an experiment and don’t even think about screwing with anyones career over an experimental vaccine. Especially when young and otherwise healthy people regardless of age are at almost zero risk from this virus.
“We can’t get to a point where we offer people a way not to comply with rules and regulations and get out of an enlistment without punishment simply by not re-volunteering.”
Remember, I, also, said separation. Failure to go falls under Article 92 and the maximum punishment for a violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation is dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for two years. So it isn’t a slam dunk the individual will just walk. It depends on a number of factors. It could be considered a willful dereliction of duty and the maximum punishment is a bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for six months.
“If the vaccine is safe and effective and required then it needs to be mandatory.”
If the government says it is, then the government has the last say if it is, whether it is or not. But because a bad “appearance” doesn’t buy votes, they lean on federal law and work around it. Military has been doing this for centuries. More than one way to skin a cat.
Oh, I worked in the business for over 32 years, active. DOA, DOD. And if you think this use of regulations is interesting, try crossing military regs with DOD regs that sometimes call themselves a liar. This is why there is a legal office at installations.
You might be interested to know that one of the most used way to come home from Iraqi Freedom by females was pregnancy. An example was aboard the Navy ship USS Acadia. During the 1991 Persian Gulf war, the press branded the destroyer tender USS Acadia the “Love Boat” after 36 sailors — 10 percent of the women aboard — became pregnant while deployed in support of Operation Desert Storm. It was so note able among all branches that the Central Command didn’t even track it, or admit the problem. And that wasted a lot of training, uniform, room and board expenses for all those that came home in the family way as many were discharged at their option or put a real strain on the new family.
wy69
I talked with a long time friend, who is a retired Army colonel about this. He said that the Ft Bragg CG has exceeded his authority with his announcement.
Wowww talk about misconstruing a subject
No one was injected with AO for medical reasons,geshhh
Looks like the sane folks won one for the moment... which team are you on Whitney69?
“Looks like the sane folks won one for the moment...
Did you bother to read the directive? The intent of the commander was to get everyone vaccinated. The first line of the directive was:
“It would be irresponsible of me to allow soldiers to travel unvaccinated throughout the United States and bring that back and have an impact on our soldiers, their families and our overall operational readiness.”
Which was exactly what I was saying. Mission oriented.
Second Paragraph:
“If you are a vaccinated soldier and you’ve received 2 vaccines, you’re at incredibly low risk of contracting the virus and bringing it back. You pose minimal to no risk. For them, they’ll be able take leave unhindered and with no additional requirements.”
In other words, if you’ve received the vaccine, you are not a risk to the force and can operate as usual.
“For those soldiers that choose, as is their right, to not take the vaccine, we will prudently apply measures of how we will make sure you are able to travel safely.”
But if you are reading into this they are turning troops loose, you better rethink it. They said they would prudently apply measures. And if they decide there are no prudent measures that fall within their needs, you won’t travel. Or if they do find ways, no one says they are going to be easy, inexpensive or available. They didn’t guarantee anything, but they put limits on how that could or could not be attainable, just approved.
“...which team are you on Whitney69?”
Is that what it really comes down to...which team? This isn’t like choosing up a three on three basketball game at the school on Saturday. People miss shots here, people die. The military and it’s support personnel are one team. I was a member of that team for over 32 years at three levels in three branches, the USAF (active DP), Dept. of the Army (NAF) and finally the DOD training personnel. I was serving in units in Vietnam from 15 to 2000 at any given time. I’ve seen action in more places than I can count and I am completely disabled, twice, due to injuries attained. I would say my resume affords me a little knowledge of military thinking and actions.
I made no judgement of whether the commander was right or wrong in what he was doing, just displayed the why and how of it the way the military looks at it. The decision of the directive from upstairs didn’t change the commander’s orders as he still has the privilege of determining the situation of each request and by using logic, can determine the possibility of granting it. Nothing has changed except the time and personnel it is going to use to spend on trying to set up every soldier’s recreation desires to keep the force protected and operational for immediate deployment. You might want to re-read the directive you gave me and keep your intake factual rather than looking for a loophole in it. It’s isn’t there. Just said in different words.
wy69
The commander has no business trying to get everyone vaccinated unless the vaccine is mandatory. He is not GOD... if the vaccine IS MANDATORY then vaccinate everyone and move on if IT IS NOT then vaccinate those who VOLUNTEER and move on. COVID 19 is not a risk to the force and has never been but that is not the point anyway. He has absolutely no business trying to vaccinate people who not required to take the vaccine...He can’t make up his own rules and there has to be due process.
You sir are very intelligent and my fear is people like you are going to lead us right into a socialist nightmare and destroy the country. There is no data to support these activities. I am seeing this strain of idiotic compliance with a bunch of folks who graduated from our military academies...highly recommend you watch this video and self reflect....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk1J4MniDtw
The military’s a special animal. I waked the vaccination gauntlet in OCS, as has every recruit for generations. I still to this day don’t know everything they shot into me, but whatever it was, I was down for over a week.
Soldiers do what their told — personal convictions aside. If you don’t, there’s another world out there known as Civilian Land…
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