At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR-15 with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage? Posted on 08/07/2018 5:10:04 AM PDT by w1n1
At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR-15 with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage?
The logic behind the usage of an AR stems from situations where a firearm needed for greater range than a shotgun.
So the debate begins, shotgun folks talk about having the knock down power to stop the fight with its 00 buck. AR’s with its high velocity and more firepower in terms of 20 rounds – 30 rounds magazine capacity.
Using either firearm we can make a perfect case as the weapon of choice to have for personal defense. In order for us to decide in an un-biased environment, a test should be conducted for validation. We can do this by pitting the two guns in a side by side shootout.
There needs to be a determination that each gun should be fired at the same target and at the same range. Because the idea is to ascertain some kind of combat effectiveness under stress, a time limit needs to be establish on each stage. Read the rest of shotgun vs AR15 here.
Urban combat...I'll take the shotgun every time..
As with many things, the answer is “it depends”. Are you worried about over-penetration in an urban environment? Do you need something that will penetrate a car door? Are you patrolling in the desert in the southwest and likely to be ambushed by drug gangs with rifles?
That man holding the shotgun is about to lose it.
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Agree, shotgun but a KSG or TS-12 instead.
In the situation in the above photo, I’d prefer a P229 with .40 HSTs.
The Winchester 73 was called the gun that won the west.
Actually that award really goes to the shotgun.
Nothing as scary as lookIng down two barrels or hearing a slide being racked. It’ll kill you dead in a flash and won’t over penetrate into the next room if you use the right load. A close quarter weapon par excellence.
You’re absolutely right. NOTHING quiets a noisy bar like the sound of a 870 slide being racked. It has that menacing metallic sound that gets everyone’s attention.
As a street cop, if I had to pick only one of the two, I’ll take the 870 everytime.
Debating the tools for solving this kind of problem is emotionally satisfying but secondary or tertiary to the problem at hand.
Do you have actual training on clearing a structure and have you applied that training to rehearse clearing your own?
Have you considered where your rounds are going to go? Like maybe through your kids room?
Did you bother actually finding out how your ammo of choice will perform according to any known repeatable standard? Your birdshot in your shotgun is better than nothing but is it adequate beyond 10 feet?
Are you prepared to evaluate if innocent life is actually threatened by that person being in your house and end that threat? You might be surprised at how many people can’t fire on another human.
Have you every fired rounds under stress? Even minimal stress like 30 seconds of maximum effort (push-ups, run, whatever) then try to accurately hit a paper plate from 10 feet in under a second?
I ask these questions of people and I get a lot of tough-guy bluster like “if they’re in my house they’re dead” and “muh burdshot”. Not many people can answer YES in any form to most of these questions.
If you can, good on you.
I’ll take 1 each.
The shotgun has the short-range stopping power - especially with multiple targets involved. Though anectdotal, I’ve shot MANY deer with ARs in both 5.56 and 7.62x39 at ranges under 60 yards. None of them fall on the spot. They were one-shot kills, but they did run a short distance. With a shotgun, they go right down.
“Have you considered where your rounds are going to go? “
Cops didn’t at Trader Joe’s.
First rule of a gunfight: Bring a Gun.
What type depends on what is handy.
If you are lucky enough to have a choice, choose according to the ranges you intend to fight.
Really?
Do you really think someone incapacitated by alcohol, out of their mind on heroin or meth is going to respond to that EVERY time?
Do you really think that presenting a threat before identifying yourself as law enforcement is something you want to explain to a judge? Tough-guy nonsense like that is how you get shot before you even have a chance to do your job.
Excellent observation.
I voted with my life, i.e. with access to any ordnance, I have a Mossberg Maverick standing in the corner of my office within reach should the need arise.
As for LEO’s, their big problem is the background into which they are shooting. With an AR15 the unintended injuries are endless since the bullets bounce around like ping pong or go through opaque backstops into who knows that. With a shotgun it is pretty much what you see is what you get.
Carried an M-16 in the late 60’s, carried several different pistols with the Sheriff’s department. At the house I have an 8 shot model 37 Ithaca loaded with #4 Buck.
Looks like someone is about to lose some teeth.
Clint Smith has a helpful video on this particular tool.
Apples and Oranges.
Have the handgun for maneuverability, the shotgun to account for aim in a night time situation, and the fully upgraded AR should I need to fend off a small army.
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