President Obama: We'll be debating unconditional free money 'over the next 10 or 20 years'

Business Insider ^ | October 12, 2016 | Chris Weller

[2ndDivisionVet]

Speaking with Wired editor-in-chief Scott Dadich and MIT Media Lab director Joi Ito in a recent interview, President Barack Obama reaffirmed his belief that universal basic income would be harder to ignore in the coming decades.

UBI is a system of wealth distribution in which the government provides everyone with some money, regardless of income.

The money comes with no strings attached. People can use it however they choose, whether to repair a leaky roof or to go on vacation. Advocates say the system is a smart and straightforward way to lift people out of poverty.

A growing body of evidence suggests such a system might be necessary if artificial intelligence wipes out a huge chunk of jobs performed by humans. That is the future Obama wants to avoid, but he said the possibility warrants a debate on basic income....

[jamaksin]

And elected twice by ??? people, who are now faced with an additional $9T in debt.

[Pollster1]

This is one of the most terrible things that could be done to the poor. It’s fundamentally racist and would by far hurt blacks the most. That’s probably why liberals and socialists support the idea.

[CrazyIvan]

It’s not free. You “earn” it by voting Marxist.

[Bullish]

How did this tool ever rise above janitor?

[Organic Panic]

Anyone here remembered how the statists pilloried Bush for tax cuts that “couldn’t buy a pair of $600 shoes?”

[Cronos]

While I disagree a lot with Obama, on this matter that we will be discussing UBI more and more over the next couple of decades, he is correct. Why?

• Automation, standardization, componentization to the cloud is only going to exponentially increase over the next 4 years
• This is inevitable - all routine jobs -- whether manual or not -- will be automated.
• All the people who promise to bring factory jobs back to the USA are dreaming. Those jobs are gone forever -- not to China, but into ether: the factories may come back to the USA, but the jobs will be automated.
• About retraining people -- this isn't a solution as only I would think 10% of students have this ability. Even in the wider world where routine jobs are automated, 80% of people can only do this type of a job. I don't believe we can help them when jobs get automated, I don't believe they can be re-trained. And even among current students, the same pareto rule -- 80% will be useful for no job.
• This is not reparations as a good chunk of the people who will be jobless will be white -- and old white people
• The savings rate in the USA is pitiful
• Deflation and zero or negative interest rates means that Defined benefits pensions are going to go bankrupt
• at the same time people are living longer -- so people who saved for 10 years of retirement, will live for 25 years of retirement at the very same time that their pensions will be losing money due to zero/negative interest rates

The UBI has one big advantage -- it will keep the masses quiet. This is nothing more than the "bread" in bread and circuses -- the "circuses" is television -- the number of people addicted to that is incredible, I also include Hulu etc. subscribers. These people are Amusing themselves to death

If you have UBI, you keep the 47% to 80% of people with no job, no prospects quiet. They gets their money and their entertainment.

There are other positives also

1. Lesser chances of people lying to get on medicaid etc. - everyone gets this, so less checking up on welfare chears
2. Lesser administration on welfare -- you just give everyone a cheque for X every month, irrespective of anything elsePerhaps even a simpler tax code?

On the negative side,

1. this ends up creating people with zero motivation,
2. more despair
3. more mindless tv-zombies
4. more irreligion -- people worship the state that gives them food for mind and body (but not for soul)

Basically there is a lot to talk about and there will be more and more clamouring for UBI. I'm not convinced either way right now, but I do wonder what happens to the 47% to 80% of people who are going to be redundant for the future...

[Cronos]

Technically — if the UBI is put in place of Medicaid, Obamacare, SS etc. etc. it could be the same tax-bill.

[Cronos]

hmmm.. immigration would need to be heavily reduced probably.

[FreedomPoster]

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”

[Cronos]

Lot's can and will go wrong with UBI. But not talking about what will happen to the untrainable is like neglecting the rumblings of Marxism in the 1800s -- it will blow up one day or the other.

As a note -- Marxism ended up hurting the very people it was supposedly helping, so not talking about what to do for this change is a mistake for all.

[Cronos]

Pontiac -- you bring out another negative about UBI -- this is not about freedom, this is about giving the masses their "bread and circuses" to keep them quiet.

The people then become mindless zombies of the state

[Godebert]

"Hard to believe somebody this stupid could be president ."

Not if you watch Mark Dice's YouTube videos of interviewing people on the street.

[Moltke]

the government provides everyone with some money,

Well, as long as it's not the taxpayer...

[Pontiac]

The people then become mindless zombies of the state

Zombies perhaps. Mindless I doubt.

The old protestant ethic that idle hands are the Devil’s workshop is true.

The welfare state has provided a bumper crop of idle hands in the Western World and those many of those hands have been at the Devil’s work.

People occupy their time at constructive work to provide their own welfare have ample time to do destructive work. Idle bored people will find something to occupy their time.

All too often people not occupied earnestly trying to make a living find that they can occupy their time with crime.

[Vermont Lt]

And shortly after everyone gets their $X per month, the cost of living increases by $X+1.

[JudgemAll]

Obama wants slavery

[paint_your_wagon]

“The money comes with no strings attached. People can use it however they choose, whether to repair a leaky roof or to go on vacation.”

Or they can combine the money with the $2500 in their obamacare savings to do both.

[ArcadeQuarters]

1. When you separate reward from work, you get less work, which means less stuff. See Venezuela.

2. If we have too few jobs, shouldn’t we first stop illegal immigration and stop issuing H-1B visas?

[Cronos]

well, it's not a protestant ethnic only. Yes, idle hands = devil's workshop. So drugs, hedonism etc. will be rife

However, I'm going to stick by the statement of these UBI people becoming mindless zombies -- a Clockwork Orange anyone?

[wastoute]

This has been the dream of progressives for one hundred years. There are an almost infinite number of ways for this to go wrong and literally no way to go right.