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To: GraceG; 2ndDivisionVet
The problem was there was not a framework in the constitution for peaceful state succession.

Not quite; the problem is that if a state cannot legally secede then the civil war was Treason because they were still states if the union.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

It is interesting that no confederate officers (or the governors, or confederate president) was convicted of treason; see wikipedia for the list of people convicted of treason.

3 posted on 03/31/2014 10:51:42 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

There is good reason why it was called a war of northern aggression.

Both sides committed treason if you stick strictly to the definition.

If Lincoln had not opposed the secession and offered a peaceful separation, there would be no reason to call anyone a traitor.


16 posted on 04/01/2014 1:17:58 AM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: OneWingedShark

If they were still states in the Union then West Virginia should still be a part of Virginia.


22 posted on 04/01/2014 3:27:42 AM PDT by rfreedom4u (Your feelings don't trump my free speech!)
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To: OneWingedShark

After the war President Davis asked for a trial but was not granted one because to put him on trial would put secession on trial and it was deemed a losing proposition.


29 posted on 04/01/2014 3:58:58 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: OneWingedShark; GraceG; 2ndDivisionVet; rockrr; Organic Panic; dagogo redux; WhiskeyX; RedHeeler; ..
OneWingedShark: "the problem is that if a state cannot legally secede then the civil war was Treason because they were still states if the union."

The basic deal at war's end was Unconditional Surrender in exchange for no trials for treason.
So the only Civil War related treason trials were John Brown's gang in 1859 and John Wilkes Booth's bunch in 1865.

But the larger point here is: virtually every "debate" over Slave-Power secession and war against the United States is based on false premises and a-historical claims.
In fact, every pro-Confederate and some Unionists distort the actual history to support their positions.
So getting the facts right is usually job #1 on these threads.

Here are first and foremost facts to remember:

  1. The Civil War itself was not caused by slavery, by declarations of secession or by forming the Confederate States of America.
    All of those events happened without war breaking out.

  2. In his March 4, 1861 inaugural address, President Lincoln pleaded for peace, while stating his opposition to unilateral secession.
    At the same time, while the Union army was barely 16,000 strong (most scattered in small forts out west), the Confederacy authorized a 100,000 man army.
    As late as April 6 Lincoln tried to avoid war by announcing to South Carolina Governor Pickens his intention to resupply Federal troops in Fort Sumter.

  3. Civil War came because Slave-Power secessionists first provoked (by seizing dozens of Federal properties), then started (at Fort Sumter), then formally declared war on the United States (May 6, 1861), then sent military support for confederate forces in Union states (i.e., Missouri).
    All of this happened before a single battle killed a single Confederate soldier, or any Union army invaded a single Confederate state.

  4. The first actual battles in Virginia did not happen until after Virginia formally voted to join the Confederacy and its declared war on the United States.

  5. All claims that the Confederacy didn't want to "take over" the United States are bogus because the Confederacy claimed as its own US states and territories (Missouri, Kentucky, Arizona) which did not, or could not vote to secede.

  6. The Confederacy also eventually sent its forces into every Union state & territory it could reach, including Maryland, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Arizona & New Mexico.

Bottom line: Civil War was started by the Confederacy, period.


61 posted on 04/01/2014 7:12:39 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: OneWingedShark

The reason for no convictions of southern leaders being: (1) the National government did not want to exacerbate the hot feelings; (2) a court ruled that it was the states not the individuals that levied war(A Virginia Federal District Court if I remember correctly.)


68 posted on 04/01/2014 7:32:21 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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