Lincoln and Obama: Two Tyrants

Off Grid Blog ^ | February 23, 2014 | Off Grid Blogger

[grumpa]

Few people understand how lawless Abraham Lincoln was in propagating our country’s biggest nightmare—the Civil War. And not enough people sense the parallel of Obama’s emerging lawlessness.

Lincoln achieved his political aims by bullying—rather than effective, innovative solutions and negotiations. Here are some facts:

• Lincoln closed more than 300 newspapers that disagreed with him.

• He arrested members of state legislatures, preventing them from debating the secession issue.

• He ordered military trials for citizens when civilian courts were available. Many of these trials resulted in hangings.

• Operating as a military dictator, Lincoln spent millions not authorized by the Congress.

• He suspended the writ of habeas corpus, a law that prevents people from being imprisoned without due process. This suspension, along with the military tribunals, resulted in the imprisonment of 14,000 war opponents illegally. (For comparison, Mussolini is reported to have jailed around 2,000 people.)

• When Chief Justice Roger Brooke Taney ruled Lincoln’s suspension of the writ unconstitutional, amazingly, Lincoln ordered Taney arrested! But the United States Marshal’s office refused to make the arrest without a valid arrest warrant. However, due to the political situation at the time, the writ was never officially restored until Andrew Johnson’s tenure.

• The cruelty of the Northern generals Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan was authorized by Lincoln. The wanton cruelty toward civilian life and property made Lincoln clearly guilty of war crimes.

• His dishonorable prosecution of the war is responsible for the failure to re-assimilate the South after the war, and left bitterness for a hundred years. The Ku Klux Klan is certainly a result of this bitterness.

• Lincoln signed the order approving the hanging of 39 Sioux Indians, for dubious reasons. This was the only mass hanging in American history.

• Lincoln was a liar, changing his message to suit the audience and his political objectives.

This is all presented in an amazing book by Charles Adams entitled, When in the Course of Human Events. Adams concludes, as any reasonable man would, that Lincoln should have been impeached. The war would thus have not progressed to its devastating conclusion. And slavery, which was clearly on its way out anyway, would have ended without the loss of 630,000 American lives.

So, how is this relevant today? Is it not ironic that a black president is potentially taking us down a path of a constitutional crisis not seen since Lincoln? History never repeats itself exactly. But the parallels should be apparent to anyone willing to see them.

[man_in_tx]

And Lincoln saved the nation.

////////////////
For better or for worse, he did so by transforming it from a loose union of states with genuine rights into a centrally-controlled, powerful monolith that survives to this day.

[Clump]

Lincoln wanted to save the north from losing the valuable resources of the south.

The pretext was that he was doing it to save the union.

The question few people ask is, did the union exist for the benefit of the people, or the other way around?

I would suggest that saving the union destroyed our republic and no doubt removed the basic concept of self government that our founders were so careful to protect.

The blatantly unconstitutional actions of Lincoln, such as suspending the writ of habeas corpus is inexcusable.

Our nation is too vast and diverse to meaningfully be represented by a powerful central government and lawless president.

States have got to get their power back, if it is not too late. I have little doubt we would be better off today if Lincoln has not interfered with the right of the people in the south to self government.

The comparisons between Lincoln and Obama are fair, and not just because of Illinois.

If Obama tries to do any of the following:
suspend the writ of habeous corpus;
close down media outlets critical of him;
deprive us of civilian trials with full Due Process, etc. then the next civil war will break out.

We don't exist to serve the government. We created the government to protect our God given rights.

[savagesusie]

Lincoln was one of the best politicians ever. He understood Machiavelli and the importance of controlling the perceptions of the masses.

All politicians have to manipulate and do evil things to gain power-—otherwise, they will never win—ever.

That said....he is nothing like Obama. He was not self-serving and an arrogant narcissist.

He worked for the best interest (in his eyes) for the US and its unity. He loved the concepts of the Founding Fathers and knew that the USA was a true experiment for freedom, unlike any nation in the history of the world. He worked to see the Union and this splendid experiment preserved by any means necessary.

Human histories are dismal-—war and tyranny. USA still is the shining city on the hill. Not perfect. Can’t be. But certainly brilliant men like Lincoln, helped move it in the Right direction, even if he did it using Machiavelli methods. It was times to try man’s souls. It was necessary.

The little secret is.....all politicians have to-—but some people’s motivation for power is superior to the evil diabolical, demonic people like Obama and Clinton, and Hillary who are totally corrupted by power. Lincoln wasn’t. He kept his Soul and belief in God.

[Nifster]

bad correlation.... and though popular with some folks really misses the point

[SandwicheGuy]

One of the biggest errors of anti-Lincoln propaganda is the ignoring of the far greatest abuses carried out by Jefferson Davis.

Really? He was feckless, but but I know of no abuses. What are you referencing?

[Nifster]

Would be nice if you could actually cite something rather than just pulling something out of the air.

O is NOT a scholar in any way, shape, or form.

He claimed to be a constitutional scholar as well and we see how true that is

[ilovesarah2012]

I would love to live in a conservative country. I love the south. North and west, not so much. And I love Sarah but I don’t worship her. I pray for this country to be divided into two seperate countries.

[Nifster]

It isn’t as if Georgians didn’t have criticism of Jeff Davis and his tyranny.

[Nifster]

and that is the most distorted view of Lincoln I have ever read.

Have you ever even read the Lincoln - Douglas debates???

[yldstrk]

I think it is accurate

[Nervous Tick]

>> the burden of proof rests with the accuser... It’s a fool’s errand to go chasing down the evidence for/against the allegations of another

I don’t agree that that’s true, particularly in cases where the allegations have obvious merit. As in this one.

Neither do the courts agree with you, in general.

Therefore, you yourself are an accuser. Please provide proof (or at least, evidence) of your sweeping generalization. ;-)

[yldstrk]

I agree with you. In a country started by revolution, if the people get fed up and want to split off, there is plenty of precedent. There is no benefit in maintaining the union

[stevem]

It's easy to criticize Lincoln. The thing of it is, is Lincoln thought the United States should continue, and he was under siege. He had a vision of the future that included the United States.

Obama thinks the world would be better served if the United States ceased to exist. He thinks the United States is a blight that has harmed the world from day one.

[iowamark]

This is the biggest load of Nazi/KKK anti-American nonsense I have ever read.

Slavery was wrong. Confederate secession was wrong. Hitler was wrong. Get over it.

[lakecumberlandvet]

Aren’t facts irrelevant when you’re constructing a myth? Honest Abe Lincoln freed the slaves and saved the union. Isn’t that all we peons need to know about Mr. Lincoln?

[Agamemnon]

And I love Sarah but I don’t worship her.

No, you just have a gushing screen name like that, because you were incapable thinking of something more clever, is that it?

And if you loved Sarah in 2012, exactly which states do you think she was not intending to be President of if she'd actually won?

Face it, you are not really the Palin aficionado your screen name is meant to imply that you are.

I pray for this country to be divided into two separate [sic.] countries.

You go ahead and keep praying to what ever divisive talisman you chose to worship.

By contrast, I'll continue to pray to the same God that Ted Cruz and Sarah Palin pray to and for a decidedly different outcome.

FReegards!

[Rembrandt]

“You are not permitted to criticize St. Abraham!”

Very true. Without negative feedback, he might even criticize St. Skittles!!!

[SkyDancer]

So, was that so bad?

[Jemian]

Yes, you are right about Lincoln and he effectively changed the country from a collection of unified states to a larger, centralized government. That constitutional error has yet to be rectified.

Ammendment 10!

[Jemian]

I’m sorry but the argument that the second may be worse does in no way mitigate the crimes of the first. Lincoln disregarded the US Constitution, which was not the ruling document for Pres. Davis, and therefore should be judged accordingly.

Perhaps Davis did disregard the Constitution of the Confederacy. I’m not familiar enough with its provisions to make that judgment.