Posted on 12/07/2013 9:38:07 AM PST by WXRGina
If I were going to write a dictionary, I might include this:
vit·ri·ol·ic (adjective) 1.filled with bitter criticism or malice. 2. Example: read comments on YouTube.
Unfortunately, YouTube does not have a corner on bitter criticism and malice. I can read it in the comments sections of almost every Internet blog and newspaper throughout this country. Sometimes its not easy to overlook some of the comments, but because of them, we need to thoughtfully consider our responses.
We might give the most rational, well-constructed, evidence-filled line of reasoning. We might show from the evidence, from the premises, from the arguments, from the logic, and, maybe even from Scripture (if necessary) what the truth is. And, having constructed this awesome edifice of calculation, we would assume that the proper response will be could only be submission to the truth. Wrong.
This assumption fails to take into account the age in which we live that esteems how we feel over how we think. It fails to take into account the biblical claim that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked (Jer 17:9). It fails to grasp that the mind-set on the flesh is hostile to God (Rom 8:7). It fails to consider the reality that a sin-sick world long ago surrendered to a debased mind (Rom 1:28). And when it comes to politics, it is often fed to us by a debased news media (ie, Martin Bashir et al.) that thrives on entertaining over offering any news of real substance.
So, do we have a Lose-Lose proposition? No, but the challenge needs to go beyond the subject yet still remain grounded in reason. Granted, some people cant be won. There will always be the person who, rather than debate intelligently, will attack you personally and maliciously. They are often anonymous people who sometime makes you wonder if they are just not using their moms computer while shes out purchasing disposable bibs for them. Or they are the pseudo-intellectual who devours large portions of Oprah Winfrey and Al Sharpton witticisms and are looking for the chance to use the word racist which has been being readied for use since the conversation started. And to be fair, it does not end at people on the left. There are people on the right who do it also and sometimes even better.
So, how is it not a lose-lose situation? Becuz reality. Reality will prove it. There are natural laws which are in effect in this world: the law of gravity, the laws of thermodynamics, and the law of you will reap what you sow. If what we are saying is correct then reality will prove it. Not as quickly as we would like to sometimes, but affirmed nonetheless. Truth lacks free choice. Truth has to result in truth. If it doesnt, it is not truth and nor was it ever. As a Christian, I am quite aware of this when it comes to debate or dialogue on an issue. So, I can take a personal attack with a grain of salt. If I have taken the time to think through my politics, then the result of a personal attack should be the same.
Russian philosopher Fyodor Dostoyevsky said, When reason fails, the devil helps! True. But its not time to retreat; nor surrender! In fact quite the opposite. Our fight is not just against faulty reasoning or supposed evidence, but against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places (Eph 6:12). We should keep in mind while we are constructing our rational defenses that reason may not be enough. We may need something more. We may need the power of the Word of God or the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ (2 Cor 10:3-5).
While faith is the evidence of things unseen, it does not require that they are without evidence or reason. Charles Hodges words ring true: Faith is not a blind, irrational conviction. In order to believe, we must know what we believe, and the grounds on which our faith rests. Our language does not require a separation of church and mind, and neither does God. Time to remember the words of Martin Luther: If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved; and to be steady on all the battlefield besides, is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point.
The level of discourse has coarsened a good deal over the years.
I assume it means FR is attracting younger contributors but it does stifle conversation when someone viciously attacks rather than presenting a reasoned counter-argument.
Never liked that fool in paradise.
When one debates, discusses and expresses different points of view one is implicitly assuming that ones opposition has something to say and is in good faith willing to reason together. Wonder if ones assumption is wrong? The left has no intention of good faith real debate with a resolution for the greater good. The left means to dominate and destroy all opposition and they have worked towards that goal for 75 to 80 years and they have done a very good job. The left is in sight of total victory. The left currently controls the media, churches, businesses, educational institutions even “science.” The time for play is ending.
In the past the moderators would warn, delete and sometimes expel the vicious attackers. They don't seem to be doing that much these days. I don't know.
Well ... I’ll tell you where I’ve been hammered in the past. It was on the question of Obama’s birth. Of course the disclaimer that I always have to put in here is that I’m not a supporter of Obama, never voted for him and I can’t wait until he’s out of there.
SO ... that being said, I said immediately after his election that those who were pursuing the birth issue for Obama were going to get nowhere. That was my prediction. I had some good, down-to-earth practical reasons why - and that’s how most people operate politically.
In fact, one of my sayings was that these people (who are adamant about the issue) - would still be hammering away on the issue even after Obama does the ribbon cutting on his Presidential library.
But - the more adamant a person was on that issue, the more vicious and irrational they became on their posts. The conversations went off into the irrational to an amazing extent.
I figured it was a waste of political effort to go down that rabbit trail — as there were more “solid” issues to go on. AND ... if any of them see this post of mine, here — this will immediately devolve into another irrational and vicious thread.
BUT ... as I always said, my viewpoint will BE PROVEN in time - and it has been. And that’s the best proof - that the actual situation, on the ground, turns out exactly as you say.
There are several “hot-button issues” that I’m on the wrong side, it seems ... :-) ... And those who are adamant about them will hammer anyone, viciously and irrationally - no matter what.
SO ... welcome back and I hope you don’t run into many unpleasant situations here.
With certain people on this board, it works the same way - and that’s directed to their fellow conservatives who have been voting conscientiously in elections to get the right people in there.
Believe me ... here on Free Republic it’s more than one in a crowd. On certain threads, it’s a gang.
There is still more opportunity for true discussion and of course, you don’t have to take the bait.
Leaving a discussion does not “surrender the issue”. There is no “winning/losing” on a forum.
The “record” is there for people to read.
Very true and a very reasonable point of view.
I often wondered if the static I got was because I was female, had a call sign that they didn't like, was from the liberal state of California or was because I was from the ultra liberal San Francisco Bay Area. Who knows but it did make me leave for several years. I was just TIRED of the barrage.
Now I get the static from Ruy Dias de Bivar, Kevmo and TigersEye.
Who needs them?
Oh ... I recognize some of those (not going to say who) - from the birth issue of Obama ... LOL ...
I see they’re still at it - on whatever is their “pet issue” of the day ... :-) ...
I agree with you there, afip. I do think that some of the newer FReepers DO take whatever bait is offered, offer bait whenever possible, LAMBASTE when someone disagrees with them and really believe that they WIN big when a Freeper they've been lambasting leaves the discussion.
I got sick of the continual negativity shown by the same old nasties. I might even get them rolling on me because of THIS post.
Yes, they are abysmally unhappy folks. Don't you agree? Why else would they come so often for so long to be so very, very negative?
Am I ever glad that I don't know them!
Yeah ... I wouldn’t want to personally meet them either. I try to stay away from people like that. It’s sometimes hard to avoid on forums, but you can certainly avoid those kinds in your “real life”.
SO ... welcome back and I hope you dont run into many unpleasant situations here.
ALL true.
ALL good stuff!
THANK YOU!
You said, “I got sick of the continual negativity shown by the same old nasties. I might even get them rolling on me because of THIS post.”
Yeah ... if they find you ... LOL ...
Lol!
I have experienced much the same.
Once, I made the mistake of stating that both adultery and homosexuality are wrong. I had at least one unhinged FR member immediately try to get me zotted and another tried to graphically describe homosexual intercourse to me as though I might be ignorant of the workings. I even got a warning from Jim Robinson himself based off of one of these person’s illogical imaginings. Thankfully, Jim is a fair person and was OK after I explained my position on the matter.
Some people will have a reflexive reaction to certain issues and nothing you say will get them to put even a couple moments of critical thinking into the matter.
Proverbs 26:4 and Proverbs 14:7 helps.
Debates are not structured in a way that any one side would need to concede a point.
Web sites are a free for all, but much the same.
Both forums allow people to talk past each other and avoid directly answering a question or a claim that is made.
We might give the most rational, well-constructed, evidence-filled line of reasoning. We might show from the evidence, from the premises, from the arguments, from the logic, and, maybe even from Scripture (if necessary) what the truth is. And, having constructed this awesome edifice of calculation, we would assume that the proper response will be could only be submission to the truth. Wrong.
We first have to assume they actually read it, if they did and fire back with personal attacks, then I suspect we have temporarily put them in a state of "Cognitive dissonance".
And this is from personal experience both online and in person.
They go into a fight or flight from the subject because it is extremely uncomfortable for them to maintain two conflicting ideas/truths.
I can't tell you how many times, in person, I slowly walked a liberal down the logical path to an undeniable conclusion, reaching the final step in which they had no escape from a certain truth.
I have seen physical facial and body language reactions, uncontrollable physical reactions, while they attempt to process the internal conflict.
It is generally followed with flight or vicious verbal attacks.
I prefer to do my “debating” online where I can cite specific news accounts, specific photos. Show it to him/her/them. Let them see what they claim ignorance of.
German citizens claimed ignorance of what went on at the camps in Nazi Germany. Other say differently that they knew and that those around them knew.
Western Communists claimed ignorance of KGB activity and the crimes of Stalin. They denied them for 40 years.
Saying something at a table or bar doesn’t have the same weight as presenting evidence and dumping it in their lap.
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