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Belize: Shooting, Shovelling, and Shutting up Fails
Gun Watch ^ | 26 October, 2013 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 10/25/2013 10:49:39 AM PDT by marktwain

In early October of this year, a man who followed the common Internet advise of shooting, shovelling, and shutting up, is in big trouble.  It is much easier to talk about not having any involvement with police than it is put such talk into practice.  From plustvbelize.com:

A man has been shot and killed in the Cayo district. He is 49 year old Pedro Ruben Luna Andrede. Mr Andrede was shot in Camalote village, Cayo, on a 400 acre private ranch in the roaring River Area, supposedly on Friday September 27. But no one except the shooter knew that Mr Andrede was dead. Pedro Andrede’s family got worried when he did not return home and by Saturday night a search party had formed. It is a bizarre killing because the shooter claims that it was self defense. However, after the man shot Pedro Andrede, he proceeded to burn and then bury the body. On Wednesday at the location we met up with the Family of Mr Andrede, waiting for a report from the Police. We spoke with one of his 9 children, 20 year old Esmeralda Luna, who told us what they know.
Small scale robbery with a machete used to be fairly common in Belize, but I do not know if it still is.  It is possible that the farmer, who has been taken into custody, was justified.  Belize is also known for having a police and judicial system that are not up to first world standards, so one can at least understand the desire not to involve the authorities.

What actually happened though, should give pause to those who advise people to follow in the Belizian farmer's example.  The person who was shot had a family.  The family looked for him, and got the police involved.   The police interrogated the farmer, and the farmer admitted what had happened, though he claimed self defence.

His self defence claim is now undermined by his attempts to dispose of the body, and the fact that he did not contact the police.

Hiding a homicide is not easy in the days of advanced forensic techniques.   A human body is not easy to dispose of.   I recommend that a person who has to shoot in self defense contact the authorities, or have someone else contact them.  You know that you did what had to be done.  The facts are on your side, but you have to be able to present them in the proper way to be sure that justice is done.

Remember that everything that you say on a 911 call is recorded and can be used against you in a court of law.

 Massad Ayoob recommends giving a limited amount of information to police.  This can be done, but it can be difficult in practice.    As with most things, a rehersal, even if only mental,  can help a great deal.

©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch 


TOPICS: Government; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; crime; defence; shovel
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Shoot, shovel, and shut up may work if you had to shoot a rabid badger. I think it is bad advice if you have to defend yourself against a human attacker.
1 posted on 10/25/2013 10:49:39 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Most people get flustered and babble ... I was at a car accident scene yesterday ... the at fault driver was incriminating himself from the moment I walked up and asked him if he was “ok” .


2 posted on 10/25/2013 10:59:28 AM PDT by Neidermeyer (I used to be disgusted , now I try to be amused.)
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To: marktwain

kind of like if you shoot a bad guy outside, drag him
inside.


3 posted on 10/25/2013 11:01:11 AM PDT by nixonsnose (you never know how much pee splatters until you are standing at the urinal in flip flops.)
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To: nixonsnose

>”kind of like if you shoot a bad guy outside, drag him
inside”<

First you take off one his shoes, put it on and kick the door in with it. If he was in a Wheelchair, never mind.

Just be sure to put it back on the Corpse before the Cops show up.


4 posted on 10/25/2013 11:05:10 AM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Good news, Federal Funding for my Tagline has been restored. Crisis averted.)
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To: marktwain

But, but the advertizements on FOX make it sound as if Belize is paradise on earth!

They would not lie, now would they?


5 posted on 10/25/2013 11:06:49 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Kickass Conservative

I think that altering a crime scene is bad advise, even if it is in jest.

Forensic evidence can be very good today. If you were justified, the evidence will back up your story.

Don’t put that at risk by altering the evidence.


6 posted on 10/25/2013 11:07:12 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
“But, but the advertizements on FOX make it sound as if Belize is paradise on earth!”

Everytime I see those advertisements, I mentally flinch. If you have enough money to buy off the government, you are still not necessarily secure.

Belize does not have a reputation of being “honest” politicians.

Most of my information is a couple of decades old, now, but from what I read on the net... it has not got much better...

7 posted on 10/25/2013 11:10:40 AM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: nixonsnose

You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig"

8 posted on 10/25/2013 11:29:59 AM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit

>> ... be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm... a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute

That works great for those Boneless Ready-To-Eat Human Corpse products you get from the cold case at the grocery.

What about real-world corpses that have skulls, spines, femurs, etc?


9 posted on 10/25/2013 11:53:58 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
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To: USNBandit
I remember seeing our penned pig devour in less than a minute a full-grown chicken that hopped into the pig pen.
10 posted on 10/25/2013 11:56:34 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: marktwain

Well unless you own a few large hogs. :-)


11 posted on 10/25/2013 12:04:12 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: marktwain

Everything is situational. However, note that in the story the farmer confessed. Had he not done so, what evidence would the police have against him?

Many years ago I made a thought problem. If you made coffins that were 6’x2’x2’, 24 cubic feet each, and put a person inside each one; then if you put every single person on Earth in such a coffin, stacked in a cube, how big would the cube be?

A cubic mile contains 147,197,952,000 cubic feet. So divided by 24 cubic feet, your answer is 6,133,248,000, close to the entire population of the Earth in a cube 1 mile high, 1 mile wide, and 1 mile deep.

The entire population of the world in little over 1 cubic mile.

The total land surface area of Earth is about 57,308,738 square miles. So if you dig a hole 1 mile deep and 1 mile wide...

So how easy would it be to find a buried body in all of that?


12 posted on 10/25/2013 12:09:18 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Welfare is the new euphemism for Eugenics.)
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To: marktwain
Remember that everything that you say on a 911 call is recorded and can be used against you in a court of law.

This is a good thing to remember, but when my daughter had to report an auto accident where the other party became belligerent and she drove off for her own safety, I had her write a letter.

That way she has exactly the same information as the police, and can refresh her memory from the letter when they call back.

The favorite trick is to go over the same material many times after you have given a verbal statement. If your story varies, even in the slightest, from last time you are lying, and they will hold that against you. With a written record in front of you you can not be trapped this way.

13 posted on 10/25/2013 12:38:08 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: marktwain

I see frequent ads about how pleasant it is to retire to Belize. Had not seen that side of the story.


14 posted on 10/25/2013 1:18:17 PM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: marktwain

Uh, I was just kidding.
That’s why I included the Wheelchair line.

Just so you know, my Brother’s Cop buddy told him the same thing tongue in cheek over 40 years ago.

He suggested you drop the Perp when he got a few steps through the door so he wouldn’t fall back onto the Front Porch. Remember, this was long before CSI and DNA.


15 posted on 10/25/2013 1:44:24 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Good news, Federal Funding for my Tagline has been restored. Crisis averted.)
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To: JimRed

I would love to Retire down that way, but unless I can legally own a Firearm while living there, it isn’t going to happen.


16 posted on 10/25/2013 1:46:08 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Good news, Federal Funding for my Tagline has been restored. Crisis averted.)
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To: Nervous Tick; marktwain; USNBandit; yefragetuwrabrumuy

100 lbs of hot lime will dissolve a 1000 pound cow, hair, hide, flesh, bone , horns, hooves and teeth into an unrecognizable pile of slush in 48 hours. Imagine what 50 lbs will do for a 200 pound human.


17 posted on 10/25/2013 1:55:55 PM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- <<http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: B4Ranch

But a 100 lbs of hot lime doesn’t come with a Bricktop reference, so I’m sticking to pigs. :)


18 posted on 10/25/2013 2:23:32 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: marktwain

I am sure that the average person advocating the SS&S approach is not seriously talking about human targets.

On another note, the writer of this piece needs to have his comma license revoked. Dizzying!


19 posted on 10/25/2013 2:31:08 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Let me hear what God the LORD will speak. -Ps85)
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To: USNBandit

OK Red, I understand your reluctance. However, please don’t invite me to the bbq.


20 posted on 10/25/2013 2:34:50 PM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- <<http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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