We Don't Need Obama's Birth Certificate (Mystery Solved?)

http://www.westernjournalism.com/we-dont-need-obamas-birth-certificate/ ^

[Cold Case Posse Supporter]

We can drop this debate over his birth certificate because we have something even more valuable. We have his mother’s passport files.

Snip~

When Obama was young, children traveled as an addition to their parents’ passports.

Passport regulations required a photo of parent and child together, as well as a certified copy of a hospital birth certificate. State-issued IDs came much later.

If Obama was born in the United States, as everybody says, then there should be a photo of little Barack Obama with his mother, as well as a certified copy of his Hawaiian birth certificate in her file.

Surprise. There are no photos of little Barack Obama in the file. And of course, there is no birth certificate from any hospital in Hawaii.

Snip~

The obvious question is, who took him through US Customs and Immigration and helped him board the plane in Hawaii? And who brought him back?

The only mention of little Barack Obama is when his mother tried to renew her passport at the US Consulate in Jakarta a few years later. We see evidence of that in the file.

She tried to trick the passport office. She went to the US Consulate in Jakarta and wrote “Barack Obama” in the section where you add your child. She thought, like we did, that they were going to add him to her passport, no questions asked.

They probably laughed and asked her how her son got to Jakarta without a US Passport.

When she failed to go get this Hawaiian birth certificate and retake her photo, the Passport Office crossed out his name.

[bluecat6]

As the 1968 action on SADs passport....

It was not a renewal.

The ONLY action taken was to remove the child. The passport did not expire until 1970. When she entered in October of 1971 for the ‘Grand Family Reunion of December 1971’ her passport was expired. And there are no records she was traveling with a child. Supposedly Obama came back earlier.

[bluecat6]

Here are some dates with links from the period....

7/18/1970 SAD Passport expires - date of expiration on 1968 update.

8/15/1970 Maya Sorento born

x/x/1970 Date not exact. 1970 is year cited in article as when Obama met Frank Marshall Davis - problem - Obama is supposed to be in Indonesia. “Mrs Weatherly-Williams said that the poet was first introduced to the future Democratic presidential candidate in 1970 at the age of 10.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/2601914/Frank-Marshall-Davis-alleged-Communist-was-early-influence-on-Barack-Obama.html

12/1/1970 Madelyn Dunham is promoted to bank VP in December 1970 she achieved a significant first, becoming one of the bank’s first two female vice presidents.

http://womensissues.about.com/od/influentialwomen/p/MadelynDunham.htm

x/x/1971 - Obama travels from Indonesia to Hawaii. His book indicates he was ‘alone’. This is unlikely. It is a multi-national, multi-hop trip. A 9 or 10 year traveling alone is very unlikely.

10/20/1971 SAD leaves Indonesia Pan Am flight 812. Nothing in records indicate Obama was traveling with her.

http://theobamafile.com/_family/Senior.htm

x/x/1971 BHO jr.attends 5th grade at Punahou according to article. It indicates he is handful of new students - as he started on first day of class.

“In fall 1971, Obama walked into room 307,Mabel Hefty’s fifth-grade class on the top floor of Castle Hall, where majestic, arched windows afforded a sweeping view of the elementary school grounds. Obama was one of a handful of new students that year, the standard entry point being fourth grade.”

http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=1715

The posting above by Panuahou supports Obama being in Hawaii well before October 1971. This would imply he did not travel with his mother since her passport expired in 1970 and she did not renew it until after she arrived in October 1971.

12/15/1971 BHO Senior visits Hawaii for a month

http://www.fcaea.org/aid=162.phtml

1/4/1972 SAD reapplies for passport indicating she will be there indefinitely.

1/14/1972 SAD returns to Indonesia

There was a reason for the ‘Grand Family Reunion’. Likely matters of custody. But the specifics have always been murky. As you can see most dates are not specific.

[4Zoltan]

“a few minor investigative errors”

He uses the Bennett article to corroborate what Verna Lee supposedly told Dr. Corsi about how BCs were numbered. This was false. Did he even read the article? Kind of sloppy for an investigator to say a document backs up his theory when in fact it doesn’t. And we still have not heard that tape of the conversatin with Ms. Lee.

So until the lab report declaring the BC to be a forgery is released, I’ll remain skeptical. How do we know he even read it?

[John Valentine]

Actually, "stuned" is quite proper on Free Republic.

Yes, and what on earth would make you think I might be in doubt of this? I've been here for 15 years, after all.

[Seizethecarp]

“He uses the Bennett article to corroborate what Verna Lee supposedly told Dr. Corsi about how BCs were numbered.”

The meaning of ‘9’ and registrar numbering are tiny nits in the investigation and are secondary to forensic proof that the pdf document is a forgery that never existed as a paper image that was scanned.

Zullo appears to have cut ties to Corsi, perhaps because Corsi induced Zullo to rely on certain incorrect representations regarding which version of the coding manual was used in using code ‘9’ or which procedure was used numbering the 1961 BCs.

[John Valentine]

Yep, I remember it well. Hilarious then, hilarious now.

[WildHighlander57]

“....When she entered in October of 1971 for the ‘Grand Family Reunion of December 1971’ her passport was expired.....”

If her u.s. passport was expired, what did she use to travel?

An Indonesian passport?

[4Zoltan]

Fair enough - then we’ll just have to wait for the actual lab report to be released.

[Cold Case Posse Supporter]

According to Wiki, it states:

‘In the summer of 1970, Obama returned to Hawaii for an extended visit with his maternal grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham.’

Then:

‘In mid-1971, Obama moved back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attend Punahou School starting in 5th grade. In December 1971, the boy was visited for a month by his father, Barack Obama, Sr., from Kenya. It was the last time Obama would see his father. This was followed by his mother visiting her son and parents in Honolulu from late 1971 to January 1972.’

[cynwoody]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/

I guess the Washington Times was wrong to print this in 2008.

LOL! I would say so. You can start with the fact their report abbreviates his first name, proving they hadn't a clue.

He was Leiutenant Quarles Harris, Jr., born 7 March 1983, died 18 April 2008, SSN 578-11-2856. His first name, not a rank in anything, misspelled or not, was Leiutenant. He was not a lieutenant in any police force or military organization. He was a small-time identity thief who was using information fed to him by accomplices in the State Department to apply for fraudulent credit cards. He did not work for John Brennan's company and had no connection to the Obama passport snooping case.

Harris had been arrested the month before and was found in possession of 21 credit cards not his own, copies of eight passport applications not his own, and some grass (the ground for the search). See MPD Officer William A. Smith's complaint.

After his arrest, Harris reportedly agreed to cooperate in the investigation. It's likely his accomplices whacked him for that reason.

[WildHighlander57]

From the link in your post; note the last sentence:

Moreover, lacking statutory guidance prior to the statute of March 2, 1907, it was an open question as to whether or not loss of nationality could have occurred in this manner during wartime. 98/ Despite the absence of statutes, however, it was generally held that minority precluded expatriation, since at common law, an infant lacked capacity to commit a juristic act. 99/

Also the 7 FAM, foreign affairs manual, has more info on minors and renunciation.

[bluecat6]

They let her in on her US passport.

Remember - a US citizen must present a US passport when entering the US. They can not use other passports they may hold.

She likely had an Indonesian passport since, according to the laws of Indonesia she was an Indonesian citizen.

This is in the FOIA records for SAD. The documents note that her passport expired but they let her enter.

[Kevmo]

Interesting analogy. What it’s missing is the breath of realism that has come from simple historical approaches to such things. In Real Estate they have Title companies which verify the title of the property sold. They issue title insurance, they put their necks on the line. Your analogy is missing the 3rd party verification stamp.

The birth certificate controversy was in essence stamped off by the SCOTUS. That was their job. If push comes to shove it will be their necks on the line.

[SvenMagnussen]

“Despite the absence of statutes, however, it was generally held that minority precluded expatriation, since at common law, an infant lacked capacity to commit a juristic act.”

You’re quoting an interpretation of the INA and its precursor to establish the fact a CLN issued to a minor is revocable. Yes, a CLN is revocable until 6 months after the minor reaches the age of majority. Obama made a choice to continue living as a permanent resident alien in the United States after he turned 18. Americans are given the freedom of choice. Some consider it a benefit to leave the country and be issued a CLN. Obama took advantage of the benefits available to a young person with foreign nationality living in America as a permanent resident alien. Eventually, Obama naturalized as a U.S. Citizen.

You are not quoting a interpretation of the INA and its precursor statutes that indicate a minor cannot be issued a CLN. Anyone of any age can move out of the country and be issued a CLN.

[bluecat6]

‘In mid-1971, Obama moved back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attend Punahou School starting in 5th grade.’

_____________________________________________________________________

That matches the ‘Dreams’ narrative. But he did not travel with his mother. Her US passport had expired in 1970 and from the FOIA records she clearly did not enter the US prior October after her passport expired.

So this continues to beg the question how does a 10 year old travel from Jakarta to Honolulu ‘alone’. There were no direct flights. Multiple stops and transfers were required. One stop/layover was likely Japan. The traveled ‘alone’ narrative in Dreams is simply implausible logistically. Who accompanied Obama on the trip?

[MortMan]

That only applies if there was proof the child was born outside of the United States.

Exactly backwards. As with all proof of citizenship, it was incumbent on the citizen to prove their status, not for the government to disprove it. The correct way to state this is:

That only applies if there was no proof the child was born inside the United States.

[SvenMagnussen]

Actually, SAD Soetoro informed the State Dept the purpose of her stay in Indonesia was “indefinite - married to an Indonesian citizen” on Aug. 13, 1968. She refused to provide a return date to the United States on Aug. 13, 1968.

These questions are not idle curiosity. The State Dept is establishing intent to relinquish U.S. Citizenship. Further evidence can be established by the failure to file U.S. tax returns while living abroad or filing taxes as a foreign national for income earned in the United States. The only thing preventing SAD Soetoro from being issued a CLN after 1968 is the fact she would be stateless. More evidence of intent to renounce can be established by acquiring an Indonesian passport or obtaining a certificate of naturalization from Indonesia by her marriage to an Indonesian National.

If SAD Soetoro acquired an Indonesian passport and let her U.S. passport expire, then it is likely she would be issued a CLN. A CLN issued to a married woman without a formal oath of renunciation is revocable by the married woman if she returns to the U.S.

SAD Soetoro was granted an exception to the requirement for U.S. Citizens to present a valid passport at a port of entry when ...

the Department of State waives Section 2, the requirement with respect to the U.S. citizen because there is an unforeseen emergency; or

the Department of State waives Sec 2, the requirement with respect to the U.S. citizen for humanitarian or national interest reasons.

[Nero Germanicus]

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/Obama-Verification.pdf

[MortMan]

NG, I was calling attention to the fact that you placed the burden of proof on the wrong party in accordance with the law. A linguistic nuance, to be sure, but a legal necessity as well.

Sorry if I was unclear on my intent - I am not debating the alleged facts in this case, only the understanding of how the law is (in a sane world) supposed to work.

[Seizethecarp]

In the event that evidence in a criminal BC forgery trail demonstrates that the verification was criminally created in furtherance of a conspiracy by Barry, HI officials, and the DNC to defraud the courts, the electors and congress it should be obvious that any HI verification produced by a corrupt HI official would be a legal nullity.