Posted on 11/06/2012 8:42:40 AM PST by Seizethecarp
To find out more about Obama’s time in Indonesia, TheBlaze tracked down Father Bart Janssen. He’s the elderly founder of Santo Fransiskus Assisis who we found in a monastery in Den Bosch, The Netherlands. We asked him, through a Dutch translator, what he remembers of the young Barack Obama.
Janssen doesn’t remember who registered Obama, but he recalls that Obama’s mother didn’t speak Indonesian at the time, so he thinks that both the stepfather and the mother would have been there together to register their son. He also doesn’t think the details in Obama’s registration document should be considered official declarations of his faith or citizenship because it wasn’t a government form and people played loose with such facts at the time. For example, it was typical to register as Indonesian and Islamic just because you were living there, so the religion indicated may just be what his father put down because it was the normal thing to do.
An exit after one term from the White House could act as a catalyst for more information more quickly. An Obama win, on the other hand, would likely keep any information – at least from the president himself — sealed for at least four more years.
Voters on Tuesday, then, may be deciding more than just who the next president is – they could help decide how much more we know about the one we have now.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
Don't attribute that to me, I simply posted a composite that's done the rounds on the web, I should have posted a source, and then you could chastise the original culprit. Your explanation suggests that he was simply removed from her passport. Right? So he arrived in Hawaii on his own passport and was probably unacompanied. And you still don't know who his parents were, when he was born, where he was born; and IF he was adopted, why the name removed wasn't BHO2 Soetoro but BHO2 Soebarkah.
You wrote:
“The events that lead to the immigration of Obama II from Indonesia to the US need to be answered once and for all. This event and its associated records should clear up a lot.”
Have passenger records from Indonesia to Hawaii in the months of his arrival been found?
Would show him and with whom he traveled.
Nobody gets on an international plane without the proper documentation; what were the travel docs needed from Indonesia back in 1971?
Also, a question about your post about lineouts on legal documents:
What was the mistake that SADO made?
Exactly. You cannot know what was behind all that without the relevant family court records. As I see it, the boy arrives in Hawaii unacompanied, he tells the authorities that his grandparents are there to meet him, but he has nothing to show they are in any way related.
What would you expect immigration to do? Hand him over?
U.S. law does not recognize dual citizenship.
Again from this link:
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/3ae6b4ec8.html
Article 13.
(2)The citizenship of the Republic of Indonesia acquired by a mother also applies to her children who have no legal family relationship with the father, who have not reached the age of 18 and are not married yet after they have resided and are in Indonesia.
“acquired by a mother also applies to her children who have no legal family relationship with the father,...”
Lets repeat that one more time....
“acquired by a mother also applies to her children who have no legal family relationship with the father,...”
Did Obama II have a legal family relationship with the (natural) father? No. The 1964 divorce defines that fact. So with no relationship to the (natural)father and his mother aquiring citizenship. Obama II squired Indonesian citizenship - automatically.
Did Lolo adopt Obama II? It does not matter as to citizenship. As of March 1966 SAD was an Indonesian citizen according to Article 7 paragraph (2). Based on Article 13 paragraph (2) so was Obama. This according to Indonesian law at the time!
As of March 1966 the family was still in the US, likely living as a Americans - at least mother and child. But after the entire family moved to Indonesia in 1967 the entire family would have been considered Indonesian - based on Indonesian law. It would appear that SAD kept her US citizenship and kept dual passports - though illegal in Indonesia. As long as she carried herself an Indonesian while in Indonesia no one would know she held her US passport. But she probably had an Indonesian passport as well.
Obama II would have been considered an Indonesian citizen upon arrival in Indonesia. Hence he could get into state schools, etc. The ‘adoptive’ status had no bearing on that. His mother was legally Indonesian and as we see above - so was he.
As stated, I think SAD - in defiance of Indonesian law - kept her ‘dual citizenship’ in place. But could she do the same for Obama II? My guess is no. At some point in time he probably got his Indonesian passport. The question is did he use that passport upon entry into the US in 1968 or 1969 or 1970? If he was a US citizen during those years and traveled to the US - and we know he did - remember the 3rd grade 1969 picture - he would have to present a US passport upon entry. US citizens MUST declare themselves as such when entering the US. But if he traveled on an Indonesian passport and presented an Indonesian passport upon entry to the US - that is a problem.
So the question is very simple - what passport did Obama when entering the US between 1968 and 1971? The answer to this simple question would either confirm or put to rest most of this entertaining speculation.
OK how does the U.S. regard minors in a situation like this?
Parent or guardian can’t relinquish u.s. citizenship for him.
He can’t relinquish it himself because he’s too young.
He’s stuck with his mom and stepfather in a country that has an automatic citizenship process.
Then gets sent back to the u.s. for his granny to raise him.
And the u.s. is definitive when it comes to citizenship...
Many thanks for this info, you have been very helpful!
What youI are doingt is taking the list of known events from o’s life and filing in what were the requirements in each of the countries he was in.
I am not a PI or a lawyer...just someone who keeps looking at this wondering why the biggest, most obvouis element is being ignored.
What happened in 1971 that allowed Obama to immigrate from Indonesia to the US - without his parents or even A parent doing the same? Why was Obama Senior there? Why did the Dunham,s pay for his stay? Is this when birth records were manipulated and altered to facilitate this immigration?
Here are all the dates I have. Some conflict, some make no sense. But these are all recorded from various sources. Most come from the passport records of SADO. But there is DEFINITE conflict and inconsistencies with when Obama II and SADO traveled from Indonesia to the US. And one of the sources I used for this has since gone 404.
But here they are. No claim of accuracy. Only that they are were all sourced at one time and nothing is purely made up.
2/21/1965 Malcolm X killed
3/15/1965 SAD marries Lolo Soetoro
4/1/1965 Family is supposed to live at 3326 Oahu Avenue
6/7/1965 Lolo given 1 year extension to remain in US. Extended to June 20, 1966
6/15/1965 Last day Lolo Soetoro is to stay in US under his relationship with UofH.
7/19/1965 SAD issued renewed (?) passport
8/4/1965 BHO turns 4
10/15/1965 Anti-communist purges and massacres start in Indonesia.
11/30/1965 SADS signs affidavet on hardship. Inidcating it would not be a hardship under the law. Indicates she is living with her parents.
3/15/1966 Anti-communist purges and massacres start in Indonesia mostly end. Indonesia was very violent during this time.
7/20/1966 Lolo S returns to Indonesia
8/4/1966 BHO turns 5
9/1/1966 BHO supposedly attends Noelani School in Hawaii during 66-67 school year
3/12/1967 Communist Indonesian leader Sukarno is stripped of power by parliament
3/12/1967 US-backed strong man Suharto is named acting president in Indonesia
6/5/1967 Letter to file indicates SAD will earn degree in Anthropology in August of 1967 and is looking for employment in Indonesia
6/29/1967 Passport F777788 amended to change the name to the married name Stanley Ann Soetoro
8/1/1967 Letter on Lolo S waiver application. “Nothing in the file to document the status of the spouses son….refernce to 101(b)(1)(B) and 212(a)…”
8/4/1967 BHO turns 6 - no longer eligible for easy international Indonesian adoption.
8/6/1967 SAD earns BA - Mathematics from U of Hawaii
8/6/1967 SAD earns BA in Athropology from U of Hawaii. Both degrees are documented - to this day.
9/14/1967 Letter to file indicating Obama is considered ‘Step-child’ of applicate (Lolo S)
10/6/1967 Letter describing situation the Lolo Soetoro and indicating SADS and child plan to move to Indonesia. Note refers to ‘Step child’. Confirms marriage as March 15, 1965.
10/15/1967 SAD travels from Honolulu to Jakarta. Note date is not exact.
1967 Referenced marriage date between SAD & Lolo Soetoro in numerous stories. This is very common and incorrect date often quoted in 2007 and 2008 in MSM. Obviously the date is not professionally researched.
1/1/1968 Barry Soetoro is registered to attend Franciscan Asisi Primary School and is seriel number 203 in class 1B.
3/15/1968 US-backed strong man Suharto is formally elected in Indonesia.
6/15/1968 Frank Marshall Davis publishes Black Sex Rebel under pseudonum Bob Green.
8/13/1968 SADS makes early application to REMOVE BHO (Saebarkah) from her passport. She is in Jakarta.
10/22/1968 Apollo 7 mission - first manned Apollo mission.
12/20/1969 Obama attends Noelani elementary school per photo from Scott Inoue. How is this? He is supposed to be in Indonesia. Photo is from Christmas time from background.
3/6/1970 WUO Bomb goes off in NY Townhome. Killing WUO members and Bill Ayers then girlfriend.
8/4/1970 Obama turns 9 years old.
8/15/1970 Maya Sorento born.
9/1/1970 Date not exact. 1970 is year cited in article as when Obama met Frank Marshall Davis - problem - Obama is supposed to be in Indonesia…
12/1/1970 Madelyn Dunham is promoted to bank VP.
8/4/1971 Obama turns 10 years according to basic timeline.
10/20/1971 SAD and BHO Jr. leave Indonesia
10/21/1971 SAD and BHO Jr arrive in Hawaii from Indonesia
10/21/1971 BHO jr. returns to Hawaii
11/1/1971 Date is approximate and records as after October 21 return from Indonesia. BHO jr.attends 5th grade at Punahou according to article. It indicates he is handful of new students - as he started on first day of class. But that is not possible if he was on October 21 flight from Indonesia.
12/15/1971 BHO Senior visits Hawaii for a month
1/4/1972 SAD reapplies for passport indicating she will be there indefinitely.
1/14/1972 SAD returns to Indonesia
7/1/1972 SAD comes back to Hawaii with Maya after leaving Lolo. Date is not exact.
So there is a starting point. The entire 1971 ‘Grand Reunion’ as I like to call it is a mystery.
IIRC:
1. To remove the child from the parents US passport having nothing to do with nationality of the child.
2. Because the child has obtained his own new US passport (based on the report of an HI birth by the grandparents...real or fraudulent), possibly to enable travel with another adult, not the parent...also having nothing to do with nationality.
U.S. law does not recognize dual citizenship.
according to us state department they do recognize dual citizenship
As a mathematics person its called ‘fitting the curve’ to the known data points. To do that you have to try lots of equations and see how well they match the data points. When an equation hits all of the known data points you probably have a match.
The equation of Obama II being an Indonesian citizen fits most of the data points and conflicts with few (if any).
I believe that what happened in 1961 is almost irrelevent. The records were likely updated and cleansed in 1971 to ensure good records were shown to Indonesian authorities. I certainly believe that Obama II was NOT born in Kenya. This is likely a mis-direction effort. No equation fits that unlikely scenario.
Obama II may have Kenyan citizenship but he may have acquired it in 1971 - not 1961. And if because of that he was freed from a country he could not live in then that would make his namesake father a hero in his eyes. And worthy of a book.
Here is another question - when did Obama ever relinquish his BOC status? Of government forms people should ask about form RN from the British government would a good one. If you do not requenquish your British citizenship status in writing in front of a British official - you are still eligible to be a British Citizen. But that is whole different thread and angle.
Good night.
Take a look at the document. An official has to attest to witnessing SADOS having signed the statement, an official who would know exactly how strikeout works (if competent) because that is the point of the entire paragraph...to have the person swear to everything that was not struck out!
“So he arrived in Hawaii on his own passport and was probably unaccompanied.”
I have never seen evidence that Barry travelled between HI and Indonesia unaccompanied. Just because he had his own passport doesn’t mean he was unaccompanied. There are pics of Madelyn in Indonesia visiting Barry as a child and she could have taken him back with her at the conclusion of that visit, for example.
3. Obtained a passport from another nation.
Removing is not proof of anything in terms of citizenship. I believe that is your primary point. Yes?
Since he was apparently removed. What passport did he get? A US passport or an Indonesian passport? Or British or Kenyan? (Just to cover all the potential bases!).
Knowing this would put to bed a lot of not-so-enjoyable speculation.
The 1967 SCOTUS ruling combined with the Elg ruling meant that Barry would NEVER have to “immigrate” and re-nationalize in the US. He could have dual citizenship in 1968 and simply return to the US anytime after that SCOTUS ruling with no problem!
This assumes that he had US citizenship to begin with...based on the report of an HI birth by the grandparents that triggered the newspaper announcements with their address.
Madelyn visted Indonesia after Stanley Ann Dunham gave birth to Maya. ‘Barry’ was still in Indonesia months AFTER that visit.
“U.S. law does not recognize dual citizenship.”
Not true:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_nationality_law#Dual_citizenship
Based on the U.S. Department of State regulation on dual citizenship (7 FAM 1162), the Supreme Court of the United States has stated that dual citizenship is a “status long recognized in the law” and that “a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces the other,” (Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717) (1952). In Schneider v. Rusk 377 U.S. 163 (1964), the US Supreme Court ruled that a naturalized U.S. citizen has the right to return to his native country and to resume his former citizenship, and also to remain a U.S. citizen even if he never returns to the United States.
The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) neither defines dual citizenship nor takes a position for it or against it. There has been no prohibition against dual citizenship, but some provisions of the INA and earlier U.S. nationality laws were designed to reduce situations in which dual citizenship exists. Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances, the oath has never been enforced to require the actual termination of original citizenship.[25]
Although the U.S. Government does not endorse dual citizenship as a matter of policy, it recognizes the existence of dual citizenship and completely tolerates the maintenance of multiple citizenship by U.S. citizens.
Madelyn could have gone back again to get Barry. Bottom line, where is there any evidence that he traveled unaccompanied, as claimed by some folks?
ok, your turn, show me where Madelyn made two trips to Indonesia. I can show you Madelyn in Indonesia once, with Stanley Ann and a baby.
What can you show me?
On second thoughts, don’t bother. I get no enjoyment out of your persistent belittlement of everything I have to offer. Carry on without me.
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