Posted on 06/26/2011 5:16:49 PM PDT by Kevmo
What do you think about Andrea Rossi's E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) technology? Game Changer, Stinks of Fraud or just your run of the mill Mad Scientist.
Biggest hurdle to me is his credibility, Rossi was convicted and jailed from a previous energy endeavor.
Appears to be real... http://defkalion-energy.com/
Odd that US rights are licensed to DOE connected Ampenergo.
my guess is too many income streams are impacted and the rollout here will be slow.
Appears the media labeled the e-cat to be some type of cold fusion or LENR. Rossi and company are claiming it to be a type of exothermic chemical reaction.
2011 - Andrea Rossi Explains His Energy Catalyzer
Welcome to my laboratory. This is where we make the tests of our reactors and of the modules that we will go to compound the one megawatt plant that we are manufacturing, and will be started in October in Greece.
Let's start from the very beginning. We have here the plug that is taking power from the grid. You can say that we are consuming or drawing 3.4 amperes. 3.4 amperes with voltage of 220 volts which is the normal voltage in Italy. So, we are taking 3.4 times 220 is 748 watt hours per hour. This is the energy that we are taking out. Later we will see how much energy we are producing with the E-Cat.
Now you will see the E-Cats. These are the E-Cats. At the moment we are making a test with one E-Cat which is this one. This is the thermal couple that measures the temperature in the chimney of the reactor. The reactor is this, in this area. This is the insulation the black one, and this is the chimney. And from the chimney exits the steam and through this black hose that goes to the sink. Here is the sink and the steam goes through there. And we also have another thermal couple which is this one. This thermal couple measures the temperature of the water that goes inside the reactor. This is a pump that pumps from this reservoir to the reactor. So you can see this pipe pumping water from the reservoir, and sends the water through this blue hose to the inlet of the E-Cat which is this. Here we have a double wall jacket between the two walls we have a flow of water. The water cools down the reactor and turns to steam. The energy will be calculated considering the amount of water that we consume every hour, that we consume by weighing, by measuring the weight by the water we consume. And the delta T,: the difference of temperature between the two thermal couples.
In this of the data of the two thermal couples, as you can see from these wires flow through this data collector, and this data collector sends that to the computer. In fact, if we go to see the monitor of this computer, we will see that we have in the first column, C1, is the room temperature. Today it is a very hot day. We have 31.8 degrees Celsius in the room. In this side here, we have in C2 the temperature of the water at the inlet of the reactor, which is the water in the reservoir. Which is at this moment 26.5 Celsius degrees, which at the output we are measuring 100.1 degrees Celsius degrees because it is steam.
We have room pressure, as everyone knows at 100 C degrees that water boils and becomes steam. These are where you can see this. The blue bottom line is the water inlet. The red line is the room temperature and the yellow line is the temperature of the steam. Now this is the control panel. Here happen all the regulations of the system. All of what happens inside the rector is regulated through this. Also temperature, suppression, etc etc. And here... oh sure.. .inside the cover I can open the cover just to let you see there is no exotic.. you can just see that here inside we do not have any batteries or any stupidity like that. This is just electronic stuff.
And here you see another very important thing which is the measurement of the gamma rays. This is the measurement of the gamma rays. Now we are measuring .15 microseiversts per hour in the enviroment outside of the reactor. This is a standard gauge to measure the gamma radiation. This is a "gamma scout." In this moment, it is giving us data .13 micros eiverts per hour, which means we are pretty safe, because of course the reactor is shielded and the gamma rays are thermalized. The low energy gamma rays which we produced are thermalized inside of the reactor, and it is for this reason that we have energy production.
Now to have a very rapid calculation of the energies... At this point I have also to show you the hydrogen system. This is the hydrogen tank. The hydrogen before we start the production this cap is screwed to this point. Now we have a security cap we take off this cap we screw this one and through this hose we discharge the hydrogen inside the reactor. I can say with one gram of hydrogen we have twenty four hours of work. So basically you can think we put this here security and screw this right here after taking off this green cap we put this place this silver cap and open here and here, and we will have the pressure and we have the hydrogen inside there reactor and the pressure that will work. Then we close everything. The hydrogen is charged, and for 24 hours it is set.
Now I can explain better the system of water distribution. As you see water arrives from here, is pumped by the para-static pump through these veins that go inside the double jacket. Here inside we have a double jacket. Between the two jackets there is the cooling water, which is the water that we steam up to collect the energy. The water comes here this is the chimney. At this point the water is operated, because here we are at 99.9 degrees Celsius which is the upper limit of liquid state of water. Here we have pressure, room pressure, this is important to specify because the boiling point is a function of the pressure. This is the thermal couple that measures the temperature of the water in the chimney. Then the steam flows through this pipe. This pipe is of course is about 100 C degrees Celsius so you cannot take your hand above, and this goes to the sink where the steam is going, that is right there. Some steam is going out because... Much of what goes out. Yes, we have some condensation. But there is small condensation because this (hose) is very short and the maximum part is steam that goes out.
Just a moment. Put it. Got it. Steam. This is steam. And of course it is not that visible because it is very hot. Being very hot, it has less density. And so it is not very visible. But you can see the steam. On white you cannot see it well. With black you can see. But it is not very visible because it is very hot. Steam you can see well at low temperatures like fog, but when it is hot it is very dispersant.
At this moment we are making seven kilograms of water. Seven kilograms that we know perfectly because we weight the water that we put inside. Every time that we recharge, we weight the water and so we know exactly what is the weight of the water that we are passing through the reactor in one hour. The temperature is 101 degrees. This is a special rubber for high temperature. This is a rubber that resists up to 180 degrees Celsius.
Now we can make the calculations.....
curvefitter
Total Posts: 56 Joined: Oct 2007
Posted: 2011-06-26 06:35 What is this doing here?
Please move. also: Was not convicted nor jailed as far as i know, but just charged
IQuant1
Total Posts: 2 Joined: Jun 2011
Posted: 2011-06-26 14:31 Impacts the Energy Sector if its the real deal.
curvefitter
Total Posts: 56 Joined: Oct 2007
Posted: 2011-06-26 16:22 Well in that case you need to do better research..
The conviction story is bogus -- they are not calling it chemical but they are trying to minimize the LENR angle to avoid being compared to Fleischmann-Pons. There are videos of a demonstation done at the university of bologna a few month ago on youtube, look for them. They said the next step would be a bigger reactor in october.
Tradenator
Total Posts: 950 Joined: Sep 2006
Posted: 2011-06-27 01:21 See Peebles' "Quantum Mechanics" book, chapter 1, section 9 for a description of tunneling with deuterons (cold fusion). In particular, read the last paragraph's discussion on compressing the electron wave function and the realism of the corresponding energies involved.
Sounds like you are a QC guy. Startups don’t hire QC guys until all the design engineering is well past the prototype stage and into production. At least here in Silicon Valley. Bloom Energy is the latest example.
True dat. But who made more money off the gold miners? The guy selling shovels who took a huge risk or Wells Fargo who waited until the gold strike was proven before moving in?
***Wells Fargo was at the enterprise level while the shovel salesman was at the level I am at. Of course, if I were at the enterprise level and had a $Billion to control, I know where I’d put it. But I don’t, so the analogy falls apart. But I can buy lots of shovels. I can buy lots of sewing machines and canvas.
If e-cat works, there will be a brazillion new possibilities to open up. Where is Atari now? If you looked at the personal computer market in 1978 and projected 20 years down the road you never would have guessed that Microsoft and Apple would rule the computer world.
***Actually, according to Wikipedia, in 1978 Atari did not have a Personal Computer offering while Apple did. The same situation exists today. Someone looking at the PC market in 1978 would have put their money down on Apple rather than Atari, and they would have luckily been right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari
A project to design a successor to the 2600 started as soon as the system shipped. The original development team estimated the 2600 had a lifespan of about three years, and decided to build the most powerful machine they could, given that time frame. Midway into the effort’s time-frame, the home computer revolution was taking off, so the new machines were adapted, with the addition of a keyboard and various inputs, to produce the Atari 800, and its smaller cousin, the 400. Although a variety of issues made them less attractive than the Apple II for some users, the new machines had some success when they finally became available in quantity in 1980.
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse get the cheese.
***Never attack a 3 headed dog with a 2-pronged pitchfork.
So, how do we position ourselves to sell shovels to the “Rossi Gold Miner 49ers”?
How I Made Money from Cold Fusion
Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:28:49 PM · by Kevmo · 28 replies · 1,013+ views
Exclusive Article for Free Republic | 1/23/10 | Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2435697/posts
LOL! OK, you win. Ultimately, it’s your money and your choice.
You are using the word “shovel” as a metaphor/analogy. If you have something more specific in mind, FReepmail me. I know people (even people with money!). Be prepared to demonstrate that
a) you know what you’re talking about
b) that there are barriers to entry to any possible competitors,
c) that your idea is something that a brazillion other people won’t immediately come up with once it’s proven that the technology is for real
d) how are you protecting yourself on the chance (whatever the odds are) that, once again, the technology is a sham.
Seriously, BS Physics,BA Philosophy,MBA. I don’t have answers, but I generally have very, very good questions!
I haven't read all of them yet but I look forward to it.
Concerning E-Cat, I'm hoping Rossi will have great success but I'm also taking things with a generous grain of salt because it appears information is not as forthcoming as it needs to be (see Krivit's blog.)
Of course, we can expect Rossi to play his cards close to his chest to retain full inventor's rights but at some point he must lay it all out for peer review and market acceptance.
BA in Philosophy? Ugh.
Thanks for the list. It actually helps.
Regarding B: Doesn’t being first to market mean you’ve covered the main barrier to entry? How did Levi’s become the main player in blue jeans — because he was first, not because he had more canvas or more sewing machines. How did Bill Gates sell BASIC for the ALTAIR? Because he was first, not because others couldn’t do it. When dealing with a disruptive technology, being ahead of the curve is worth far more than all the other stuff. Have you read “Innovator’s Dilemma”?
http://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Revolutionary-Business-Essentials/dp/0060521996/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1309151934&sr=1-1
also taking things with a generous grain of salt because it appears information is not as forthcoming as it needs to be (see Krivit’s blog.)
***From post 15 in this thread...
Did you read what Jed Rothwell came up with?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2736442/posts#48
It could just boil down to a simple miscommunication due to language barrier.
Or... it could be a scam. But the discussion on Vortex-L doesn’t seem to support the scam angle.
.............................................
Of course, we can expect Rossi to play his cards close to his chest to retain full inventor’s rights but at some point he must lay it all out for peer review and market acceptance.
***It would appear that he is aiming for market acceptance first, and peer review as a distant second that would basically enable his future competitors. At this point, a close-to-the-chest inventor appears to act in the same fashion as a scam artist. But if you contrast Rossi’s actions to Mills, you see that Rossi is demonstrating prototypes, maybe as many as a hundred, while Mills is just selling Powerpoint slides after 20 years of effort.
97 E-Cats In Operation Right Now Accross 4 Countries
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2712829/posts
Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:56:32 AM · by Free Vulcan · 72 replies
Free Energy Truth ^ | 4.29.11 | Staff
Keep in mind that at a similar point in the development of the Airplane, the Wright brothers would not demonstrate their device to anyone who would not promise orders. It weeded out sniffing competitors. Were they scam artists?
But the big money will not come his way until he finally crosses that bridge, IMHO.
But the big money will not come his way until he finally crosses that bridge, IMHO
***400M Euros is not big money? He plans to sell commercial units by November, although I doubt he would make such a deadline. What’s the watershed point between little $ and big $? If his 1MWatt demo plant in October is a success, so many people will want to be a part of it that he might not ever need to go through peer review. He has promised to deliver units to the University of Bologna for analysis by next year or so.
The Peebles book, including the section on cold fusion, is available here: http://books.google.com/books?id=hTaw4Ht4Vi8C&printsec=frontcover
It basically says that Pons-Fleischman deuterium cold fusion won’t produce significant energy. Published in 1992, it doesn’t have anything to say about the energy catalyzer.
Comments on a website re: Krivit’s video pretty much took Rossi apart. They didn’t say he wasn’t producing excess energy, just not in the quantity he claims. Color me sceptical until he releases his device to other researchers for analysis.
From Lewan’s article. Doh!
“I’m still disappointed that I forgot one very simple check: I only measured the input current on one cable, the ‘zero,’ or ‘cold’ line. Obviously, this leaves open the possibility of deception if there is a large current on the phase, or ‘hot,’ line and it is distributed in part (1.6A) on the ‘zero’ (’cold’) line and in part over the ground line (about 10A to achieve 2.5 kW).
"Took Rossi apart"....how? I didn't get that from the video, but then I mostly don't "do" videos, because my hearing defects make it hard to follow soundtracks.
And Krivit and everyone else doing the "wet steam dance" are certainly IMPLYING that there's no "there" there, and that there is no excess energy.
Krivit's "analysis" makes serious mistakes which he shows no sign of correcting. Specifically, he essentially calls Levi either a charlatan or an incompetent by broaching the "wet steam" issue and ignoring the "no steam" test. Part of Krivit's argument involves the use of a capacitance probe to determine steam quality. Capacitance sensors are not USUALLY used to determine steam quality, true (all you really need for that is a good thermometer, a barometer, and a CRC Handbook). But capacitance probes certainly CAN be used to determine steam quality. It would take me about half a day to develop the necessary recalibration to make that measurement. The resulting graph would be decidedly non-linear, but usable. And, as I said on another post, such data is probably available from the manufacturer.
Why didn't Krivit simply call (or interview, since he "was" in Italy) Galantini and clarify the point??
Based on what I read on the blog I referred to, Krivit didn’t understand the importance of the steam issue until after the video was completed and so missed the opportunity to ask the relevant questions. Also, as I pointed out the discussion on that blog didn’t preclude excess energy being produced. They did question Rossi’s exorbitant claims though. As I’ve said before, Rossi needs to put the device in the hands of other research teams and allow them to duplicate (or not) his research. I understand his reluctance to do so pending the approval of his patent but until that occurs his results will remain in doubt.
Krivit was posting about the "wet steam dance" well before he went to Italy (I think on the Vortex-L mailing list). He specifically raised the issue with Levi during their interview. Levi tried to explain things, but whether due to Krivit's ignorance or the language barrier, the necessary communication didn't take place.
And this STILL ignores the "no steam" experiment, which completely by-passes that particular possible error, because THERE IS NO STEAM GENERATED.
You should go to that blog and respond to Goat Guy. It would be an interesting conversation. I’m not equipped to deem either of you right or wrong but would be interested in a discussion along the lines of your post here. Sorry about the mess on my last post. It looked fine before I posted it.
I thought about it, but the Vortex-L mailing list just generates too much "email clutter" if you subscribe. Keeping up with the posts on the list itself isn't too terribly bad, and can be done at odd moments (as here at FR). I used to follow "Talk-Polywell" reasonably closely, as there is a pretty long thread there about Rossi and I'm also interested in Bussards hot fusion concept, but I just got too tired of the blatant intellectual dishonesty on the part of the naysayers.
I've got too much work to do in the real world to manage the time it would take.
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