It hertz when you do that – power grid to stop regulating 60 Hz frequency

Watts Up With That? ^ | June 25,2011 | Anthony Watts

[brityank]

It hertz when you do that – power grid to stop regulating 60 Hz frequency

Posted on June 25, 2011 by Anthony Watts

“Experiment” on the US power grid will change the way some clocks and other equipment function.

A 60 hertz sine wave, over one cycle (360°). The dashed line represents the root mean square (RMS) value at about 0.707 Image: Wikipedia)

Story submitted by Joe Ryan

The AP has released an “exclusive” story concerning the nationwide “experiment” that will be conducted on the US power grid. The experiment will relieve the power providers from the duty of regulating the frequency of power on the line.

Normally the power stations condition their power to a frequency of 60 cycles a second, a frequency that many old clocks use to maintain their time. With the new standard, or lack of standard, these clocks will stop keeping time properly.

But the problem is more than that.

First, we have this gem from Joe McLelland who heads the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (from AP article):

“Is anyone using the grid to keep track of time?” McClelland said. “Let’s see if anyone complains if we eliminate it.”

… forgive me for not getting warm fuzzies from this. Likewise, Demetrios Matsakis, head of the time service department at the U.S. Naval Observatory, had this to say (AP Article again):

“A lot of people are going to have things break and they’re not going to know why,”

So, we have what appears to be an untested, for the hell of it, “experimental” major change to the US electrical grid coming in a few weeks and those in charge aren’t really sure how it will work or if it may break something?

Not only is this what a LAB is for, but it is also something that the Federal Government should be TELLING people about in advance, and not in an AP “exclusive” press release.

[tophat9000]

This is idiotic...this will thrash computers, digital equipment and tel-com gear ...leading to chronic interment problems....As a Field engineer on large systems, power quality was always something I checked.... now effectually everything is going to get fed “dirty power” full time

[Melas]

So tell me, how is this going to have any effect at all on your computer?

[Blood of Tyrants]

I am not worried about it. Imagine a freight train with 5000 engines pulling 100,000 freight cars going 50 mph. Now imagine trying to make it go faster or slow it down by varying the speed of one engine just a little. It ain’t going to happen.

[j_tull]

If allowed to drift too low, things with transformers will begin to overheat as inductive reactance decreases on the primary side.

[dynoman]

Read post 49.

Readers; this FERC pdf shows the history of the the frequency response project.

http://www.nerc.com/filez/standards/Frequency_Response.html

[raygun]

A big headache for electrical regulator boards is that of harmonic and interharmonic distortion. Failure to compensate for this will result in all sorts of problems throughout the grid.

In India, the majority of wind turbines convert mechanical power into electricity through directly connected induction generators. These induction generators require reactive power from the grid for excitation. The loads on the power systems in India also consume a significant reactive power, mainly due to agricultural pumps.

The resulting reactive power demand decreases transmission efficiency. Moreover, reactive power consumption is deleterious to the fundamental capacity of the power stations themselves as a result of the poor quality power factor unduced by the reactive power load. This becomes a critical issue when the available power station capacity is insufficient to supply the peak demand.

Finally, excessive reactive power consumption can be critical for the stability of the power system itself.

http://130.226.56.153/rispubl/VEA/veapdf/ris-r-1172.pdf

[dynoman]

Bingo! Here’s the FERC Field Test document;

http://www.nerc.com/docs/standards/sar/2007-12_BAL-003-1_FR_Field_Test_Document_20110204.pdf

Here’s the operative quote;

“BAL-003-1 proposes to bring Frequency Bias Settings closer to Frequency Response. The drafting team proposes to reduce the minimum Frequency Bias Settings over a period of years. The drafting team proposes to establish a new minimum Frequency Bias Setting in 2011 (-0.8% of peak/0.1Hz, compared to the present -1% of peak/0.1Hz). The drafting team, NERC and the Resources Subcommittee will observe the impact on frequency and will implement a reversion plan as necessary.”

Looks to me like they are proposing tighter not looser frequency control and reading the other docs mainly between interconnections.

[MinuteGal]

We must all write a letter of protest to Father Time.

Get to work!

Leni

[tophat9000]

So tell me, how is this going to have any effect at all on your computer?

Not my computers ..digital gear in general ..the world is more then a PC ... large computer systems...networking gear, router, switch....Most digital gear power supply are designate to make DC of a predictable (with some degree of tolerance) AC and filer out predictable AC hum ...

Let inject a great big unknown variable in to trillion of dollars of gear to cope with something that engineers did not anticipate as a "Norm" see what happens...f...ing brilliant

[Loyal Sedition]

Clocks and traffic lights are TRIVIAL in comparison to the damage this will do to our modern manufacturing base!

How long will modern CNC equipment run properly under these conditions?

How long will the computers compensate before premature failure, how many machines will “Crash” due to this?

If another government did this to us it would be a clear act of war, since it’s ours, this is domestic industrial sabotage!

The firing here should include a wooden post, blindfold, and last cigaret!

[dynoman]

Another doc that outlines the proposed standards;

http://www.nerc.com/docs/standards/sar/2007-12_BAL-003-1_Implementation_Plan_20110204.pdf

Again the operative numbers;

• May 2011 through December 2011 -0.8% of peak/0.1 Hz
• January 2012 through December 2012 -0.6% of peak/0.1 Hz
• January 2013 through December 2013 -0.4% of peak/0.1 Hz
• January 2014 through December 2014 -0.2% of peak/0.1 Hz
• January 2015 through -0.0% of peak/0.1 Hz

The attachment A doc explains that caculation and implies the current guideline is -1% of peak/0.1Hz;

http://www.nerc.com/docs/standards/sar/2007-12_BAL-003-1_Attachment_A_20110204.pdf

I’ve seen enough to conclude the AP and linked article authors don’t know what they are talking about.

[Neidermeyer]

Now I’ll be awakened by alarm bells on all 4 of my UPS boxes scattered throughout the house at all times of the day and night... BRILLIANT!

[dynoman]

Read through all the posts. The story is BS.

[Hawthorn]

>> I also cannot see how this would adversely affect home appliances <<

Aw, c'mon. Don't take away all the fun the complainers on this thread are having!

I mean like, Who wants to know the facts? We'd rather bitch and moan!

[Loyal Sedition]

Either way, “Fixing” what is not broke.

Stupidity in action, we have more important issues to deal with.
To hell with the watermelon do-gooders!

[Erasmus]

There are some who grew up in the day when the standard unit of frequency was the Cycle Per Second, or CPS. To get with the modern terminology of Hertz (Hz), here's an aid: CPS to Hertz Conversion.

I was looking for the nomogram posted at our radio station in 1968 but couldn't find it. The method above is almost as easy to use.

[Erasmus]

Seriesly, or parallelly, has anyone seen an engineering explanation of the rationale of this experiment?

[Hawthorn]

>> But 14 seconds/day error for clocks is significant. <<

Maybe so, but only if variations in the Hertzian domain are biased toward one direction or another — that is, biased “plus” or “minus” from 60 cps.

On the other hand, if the variations are more-or-less randomly distributed (which I suspect they’ll tend to be), then they should cancel out before almost any homeowner has a chance to notice a time discrepancy between his old-fashioned electric clock and WWV.

[jmcenanly]

Perhaps selling power strips that convert the varying AC to 60 hz, manufactured only by our good friends the Chinese.

[Nowhere Man]

There is no equipment in the hospital that uses the cycle from the socket to dispense medication. Nor will your appliances have to work harder creating more heat.

All the hospital equipment is keeping time internally using individual crystals. Using the cycle from the socket is ancient technology that barely exists today. Chances are good that you haven't seen a clock that runs directly off of unconverted AC power in 30 years or more. Likewise the medi-pumps the hospitals use are also converting the AC from the socket to DC power.

True. I remember when I was in hospital when my left hand was infected, the IV pump for my anti-biotics was plugged in but it had an internal battery so I can move it on the tree to wherever I go. It is much like a laptop where you plug it into a battery eliminator that charges the battery. My grandmother on Mom's side passed away in 1997, she needed a kangaroo pump to feed her through a tube for the last part of her life. That was the same as well, you unplug it, the battery takes over.

Basically you have a quartz based clock that oscillates at 32,768 times a second (32.768 kilocycles) much like a quartz clock or watch. I know earlier watches used a tuning fork oscillator to keep time.