Resty; you have TRULY outdone even your OWN self today!!!
Posted on 08/25/2010 4:41:11 PM PDT by grassboots.org
Over the last six or nine months I have been growing ever more concerned over Glenn Beck and his Evangelical and Conservative followers. I have not been alone, there have been countless other Christian Laymen and Pastors have expressed the same concern when Mr. Beck started talking about God, Jesus and Faith.
My question is should we as Christians who believe in Salvation by Grace Alone, through Faith Alone in the Person and Work of Christ Alone, for God’s Glory Alone have anything to do with Beck in the areas of Faith and Religion?
Mr. Beck is a confessing Mormon, and his theology and false history leak out during his programs.
Example #1:
(Excerpt) Read more at caffeinatedthoughts.com ...
If you are asking does God lead people, of course He does. Providence means he rules all people and things.
But when Mormons speak of scripture, they mean inspired in a sense similar to what Christians do. Literally ordained by God to be read as authoritative. But Mormons consider the Bible, Book of Mormon, and the Constitution to be Scripture. The fact they don't think the latter document to be perfect is no different than their attacks on the Bible.
I don't need to post the whole thing again.
You do know that our nation's president was, in fact, a student of scripture who attended church regularly, and was an active member of the Anglican Church, where he served on his local vestry or attachment to the church. He was married in church, sent his children and a nephew to a Christian school, and gave his money to support many different congregations and Christian causes.
You may call him a pagan if you wish, just because he didn't buy into the “trinity” and agreed with early Christian Fathers over evolving creeds, but that doesn't change who he is or what he believed in, or the fact that he was raised up by God to do the great work that he did.
Even Columbus himself felt that he was led by God. I guess it's you're word against his. There are many references to it, here's just a couple.
“Our Lord unlocked my mind, sent me upon the sea, and gave me fire for the deed. Those who heard of my [enterprise] called it foolish, mocked me, and laughed. But who can doubt but that the Holy Ghost inspired me?” (from Jacob Wassermann, Columbus, Don Quixote of the Seas, 19–20)
“Who can doubt that this fire was not merely mine, but also of the Holy Spirit who encouraged me with a radiance of marvelous illumination from his sacred Holy Scriptures, by a most clear and powerful testimony...urging me to press forward? Continually, without a moment's hesitation, the Scriptures urge me to press forward with great haste.” (West and Kling, Libro de las profecas, 105)
Compare these with Nephi from the Book of Mormon, who saw Columbus in vision:
1 Nephi 13:
11 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren.
12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.
It is a simple disagreement and I am glad that it is clear. It is not based upon a disagreement about what Jefferson believed. It really comes down to whom you believe, Jefferson or Trinitarians. So when I call him pagan, what you are saying is not that my definition is wrong, but that Jefferson was right.
You’re framing is wrong and so is Jefferson’s. We disagree about what “primitive” Christians believed and certainly what the Bible teaches. Your bio is irrevelant to the truthfulness of what he believed.
“Even Columbus himself felt that he was led by God. I guess it’s you’re word against his. “
That is a strange way to present it. Usually the words “you’re word against” imply that two people are making a claim and one is lying and the other is telling the truth. But it is a verifiable claim. Columbus could not verify his claim, so it has nothing to do with “his word” or mine.
You’re viewpoint is totally subjective as was Columbus’s. What is the point of quoting the book of Mormon? Are you suggesting it predicted Columbus’s voyage 300+ years after it occurred? Okay, let me try it. Richard Nixon will be president. He will resign in disgrace. THERE! I can be a prophet, too!
Ironically, your definition is found in the Book of Mormon... but not the way you think.
2 Nephi 31:21
And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end.
But HERE is where we disagree on what it means to be “one God”.
John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
That incredible vast Palmyra library that Joseph Smith must have had such a great selection from. It’s amazing, I tell ya!
True for most any TV personality...we all need to do our homework to confirm.
If one has done some research into the Mormon history there were overtones in his speech and cetain guests today of that...which I expected there would be...after all he is accountable to those of the faith he practices. I’m certain LDS supported this event quite well.
I am cautious when it comes to any who attempt to unite all faiths...for there is a push to do so worldwide and that not for the good. So wise to keep one eye open....but I think he did a fair job af keeping Mormonism out of this event and that was a good thing.
Compare these with Nephi from the Book of Mormon, who saw Columbus in vision:
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1 Nephi 13 in Joey Smith’s book of mormon is about a guy knowing that Columbus would “sail the ocean blue” one day hundreds of years later ???
Source ???
How do you know that ???
Joey Smith never identified the guy...
again...
The word “Columbus” is not in the book of mormon...
OK, I'm going to give you a little history lesson from the Book of Mormon, and see if you can connect the dots. If you have a better explanation who and what are represented in these passages, then by all means, tell me.... (Other than you don't believe it and it was all made up, we know you feel that way already)
1 Nephi 13:
10 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld many waters; and they divided the Gentiles from the seed of my brethren.(OCEAN)
11 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren.
12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, (COLUMBUS) who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land. (AMERICA IS THE PROMISED LAND... LOTS OF REFERENCES TO THIS IF YOU NEED THEM)
13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; (PURITANS) and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.(WHAT HAPPENED TO NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATIONS AT THE HANDS OF EARLY SETTLERS AND CONQUISTADORS ON THIS CONTINENT?)
15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; (AGAIN, PURITANS AND SUBSEQUENT GENERATIONS WHO SERVED GOD) and the power of the Lord was with them.
17 And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them. (GREAT BRITAN AND THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR)
18 And I beheld that the power of God was with them, and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle.
19 And I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles that had gone out of captivity were delivered by the power of God out of the hands of all other nations.
20 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that they did prosper in the land; and I beheld a book, and it was carried forth among them. (BIBLE)
21 And the angel said unto me: Knowest thou the meaning of the book?
22 And I said unto him: I know not.
23 And he said: Behold it proceedeth out of the mouth of a Jew. And I, Nephi, beheld it; and he said unto me: The book that thou beholdest is a record of the Jews, which contains the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; and it also containeth many of the prophecies of the holy prophets; and it is a record like unto the engravings which are upon the plates of brass, save there are not so many; nevertheless, they contain the covenants of the Lord, which he hath made unto the house of Israel; wherefore, they are of great worth unto the Gentiles. Hope that helps.
BTW, if you require the statements of several prophets and apostles that also say this passage is specifically about Columbus, then I will be happy to provide such.
“I feel persuaded, by the many and wonderful manifestations of Divine Providence in my especial favour, that I am the chosen instrument of God in bringing to pass a great event-no less than the conversion of millions who are now existing in the darkness of Paganism.” (Lester, The Life and Voyages of Americus Vespucius 79)
“Already I pointed out that for the execution of the journey to the Indies I was not aided by intelligence, by mathematics or my maps. It was simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied.” (West and Kling 111)
“In the name of the most Holy Trinity, who inspired me with the idea and afterward made it perfectly clear to me, that I could navigate and go to the Indies from Spain, by traversing the ocean westwardly.” (Curtis, The Authentic Letters of Columbus, 193)
“Our Lord made me the messenger of the new heaven and the new earth, of which he spoke in the Book of Revelation by St. John, after having spoken of it by the mouth of Isaiah; and he showed me the place where to find it.” (Life, 50, 57n)
“In the name of the most Holy Trinity, (Curtis, The Authentic Letters of Columbus, 193)
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WHOO there kid...
You mormons dont believe in the Trinity...
Thats not in the book of mormon either...
Next subtefuge ???
here’s some more wonderful statements by Columbus himself.
“Our Lord made me the messenger of the new heaven and the new earth, of which he spoke in the Book of Revelation by St. John, after having spoken of it by the mouth of Isaiah; and he showed me the place where to find it.” (Life, 50, 57n)
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Lets ask John about that shall we ???
Shouldnt be too hard...
You mormons claim he never died...
I think you are getting too predictable.
Most of the Founding Fathers, as well as Columbus, and all the puritans who were led here, (except for maybe Jefferson) believed in the Trinity. That doesn’t make any of them less able to receive God’s promptings or do His will.
Most of the Founding Fathers, as well as Columbus, and all the puritans who were led here, (except for maybe Jefferson) believed in the Trinity
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But mormons do not...
You have told us time and time again...
“the word “Trinity” is not in the Bible...”
Rip, old pilgrim, ya cant have it both ways...
Most of the Founding Fathers, as well as Columbus, and all the puritans who were led here, (except for maybe Jefferson) believed in the Trinity. That doesn’t make any of them less able to receive God’s promptings or do His will.
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WHAAAAAAAAAAT ????????????????
A belief in the Trinity is now a hinderance ???
Doesn’t matter, apparently you are completely missing the point.
I give up.
Yeah...
See ya somewheres after the next 50 posts...
:)
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