Scotch-Irish versus Ulster Scots or Scots-Irish

Backcountry Notes ^ | April 2, 2010 | Jay Henderson

[jay1949]

Whenever I post an article which mentions the Scotch-Irish, I receive a comment or an e-mail or a contact form advising that I have erred and that the real name is (usually) Scots-Irish or (sometimes) Ulster Scots. Well, no it isn't. Since the late 17th century, Scottish persons who emigrated from Ulster to America have been known as, and have called themselves, Scotch-Irish.

Mistake me not: I have no objection to any of the above-noted ethnic indicators. I use the name Scotch-Irish because it is the traditional term used in the United States generally and in the Backcountry where I live specifically. There is nothing wrong, or amiss, or insulting, or ignorant about using the name Scotch-Irish.

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

"I am glad to see you make a point of calling them 'Scotchmen', not 'Scotsmen' as they like to be called. I find this is a good easy way of annoying them."

Eric Arthur Blair, a.k.a George Orwell, in a letter to Antony Powell.

[fieldmarshaldj]

*ping*

[Textide]

Nice article!

My GGGGreat Grandfather came directly from Scotland, not via Ireland, and my family still refers to itself as Scotch-Irish due to later marrying Irish immigrants. He, wife, and a couple of sons and descendents are buried at Scotch Ridge Cemetery in Ohio.

[the long march]

And yet again you seem to think that what the English want or do is of any concern to a true Scot. Those with Celtic blood laugh at such a fool as thee.

Go back and try to pretend that you are erudite

[the long march]

Oh and by the by, I know you don’t care about modern useage since you seem to be lost somewhere else

however this is what was before the English out lawed the pipes and the old tongue and it is what is common ‘modern’ ( since the 1900s) useage

“In modern current British usage, in England as in Scotland, the general term for things from or pertaining to Scotland is Scottish. Scots is used for the Scots language and Scots law, although one increasingly hears it used of people and organisations, especially in newspaper articles. Scotch remains in use only for products such as Scotch broth, Scotch beef, Scotch egg. One cynical joke is that Scotch can be used only for things which can be bought, such as whisky, eggs and politicians. ‘Scotch terrier’ was once one of these legacy uses, but has increasingly been replaced with Scottish terrier.”

[NavyCanDo]

Ulster Scots and Scots-Irish are the correct terms though many do use scotch-Irish, and I won’t fault them for doing so because I do so my self from time to time. Just comes out that way. You will tend to be corrected by the linguist in the group though, if you do.

[Little Bill]

I did a little Family History on my Scotch Irish side of the Family. They originated in England as did my Daughter in Laws, Scotch Irish family, well known name down South and Texas.

The Irish Irish are probably Scots, Ulster, and the English English have a lot of Welsh, so as a somewhat Celt on my Scots side, Lowlander, "Me thinks that thou doth protest To Much...

[jay1949]

Thanks for your note — and no offense intended to present company — but I have yet to hear from anyone who qualifies as a “linguist.”

[bobjam]

It has long been my understanding that the term “Scots-Irish” as a description of an American’s ancestry became common in the mid 19th century. The reason being is that Americans of Irish ancestry who came over in the 17th and 18th centuries were mostly Protestants and of anglicized culture. They wanted to distinguish themselves from the 18th century Irish immigrants who were mostly Catholic and of gaelic culture. Since many of these Irish Protestants intermarried with Scottish Protestants (who came over about the same time), the term “Scots-Irish” worked.

[dfwgator]

Well, no it isn't. Since the late 17th century, Scottish persons who emigrated from Ulster to America have been known as, and have called themselves, Scotch-Irish.

Or "Celtic Supporters."

[ExpatGator]

My heritage makes me a Scotsman and I am a scotch man. Lagavulin is first choice.

[hennie pennie]

I have Scotch-Irish ancestors, and I also have some English and some Scottish ancestors who called themselves Scotch-Irish, but they were mistaken.

I get very tired of people telling me that there is NO such thing as Scotch-Irish, when THAT is precisely how the Scotch-Irish referred to themselves.

[NavyCanDo]

“Thanks for your note — and no offense intended to present company — but I have yet to hear from anyone who qualifies as a “linguist.””

LOL! And a true Scots-Irishmen would tell the lingist correcting them to go jump into the nearest loch.

[John S Mosby]

Think we've been here before. It is helpful to delineate the different languages: Scottish, Irish, and dialects of English. This is differentiated from Gaelic (or “in the Irish” as often used) or Scots. So this is all good to know.
A person is a Scot if they are from Scotland, and if they are many then they are a group of Scots. So, that is fairly simple despite names declared by different societies, like Scotch Americans, etc.. Suffice to say, we know who we are no matter what anyone calls us.
And, nice work looking up “crack” as a clever retort or used to describe someone who “cracks wise” ie. a wisecracker.
I must add, as a 5th generation Southron, the term “cracker” as commonly used (even by those intending it as a derogatory term, like “honkie”) derives from teamsters, who cracked their whips on their teams.... this comes from Florida and is quite old in history there— out in the pine scrub that pioneers settled. And, they were largely Scots in descent. Elsewhere on FR someone has raised, yet again the term “redneck” which has multiple origins and is also a term of pride amongst true Southrons.
In all this, there is academic correctness and historic usage— and usage trumps the dictionary. It is fascinating in any case to study linguistics and etymology, especially since English incorporates so many words from the world. Many in the South long ago mastered the ability to insult someone, when necessary, in such a way that the uninformed are left puzzled to even know how they were insulted. It has been a source of great personal pleasure for generations and the stuff of great legends and stories. Thanks again for your blog, jay— good stuff

[VR-21]

Lagavulin is first choice.

By no means a difficult choice either.

[John S Mosby]

MMMMM, good, and my faves are Dalwhinnie and Jura.

[444Flyer]

Ping

[John S Mosby]

“I see a black sail, on the horizon, set under a dark cloud that hides the sun”

[Let's Roll]

Exactly so. The reason I am careful to say Scots-Irish is because I have yet to hear of the whiskey referred to as ‘Scots’ but always as ‘Scotch’. And being half Irish and 1/4 Scots-Irish I am not fond of hearing my ancestors referred to as the “Whiskey-Irish”.