Posted on 08/05/2009 6:40:35 AM PDT by Edward Watson
In my personal opinion, Obama is a disaster for America. I believe future historians will describe this period as the OBAMA CATASTROPHE - the time when America collectively lost its mind and voted for a man and a group of leftists who quickly destroyed the nation in favor of socialism and income redistribution.
However, if people want to save the American nation and way of life - the best and most benevolent society in human history; opposition must be passionate and RATIONAL. The entire legitimacy or birther issue is indeed passionate but definitely not rational.
It has been frustrating to see my fellow-Freepers waste so much time and effort arguing that Obama isn't a legitimate president. He is and no amount of wishful thinking to the contrary will change that fact.
Salon has a great article addressing all the issues of the matter (see sourced website above).
What has become of us? I know some conservatives tend to lean towards mindless conspiracy theories but this is getting ridiculous.
Free Republic is a forum where conservative issues are discussed, hopefully rationally but always passionately. I remember when we all laughed at the conspiracy theories emanating from the liberals and leftists (i.e., 9-11 was an inside job) and now the same type of lunacy has infected this forum.
Time to stop the birther distraction and focus on the real issue of saving the Republic.
Perhaps the emotions that drive the Right to oppose Obama's socialist agenda are a counterreaction to the phenomenal and unrelenting level of emotion-driven adoration of him by the Left.
I am curious, though. You say Obama is being held "to standards that no other President or candidate has been". Name one.
“I would be grateful if you would withdraw your comments about LDS people not being able to be rational.”
In good conscience I cannot do that. Mormonism is based upon a spurious/bogus prophet and spurious/bogus documents that no “rational” person would fall for - anymore than buying into scientology (i.e. Tom Cruise & John Travolta). Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard were both con men. I cannot nor will I back off from that assertion.
The writer accused others of not being “rational” while he himself buys something totally irrational. IMO his looses the moral authority to call anyone irrational.
Now can Mormons do rational things? Yes, even liberal atheists get things right at times. Devout Mormons are a very “moral” people, but so are some devout Hindus, etc. Being “moral” doesn’t make you “Christian.”
I AM sorry that religion got interjected into this thread, but I felt it necessary because I believe this individual to have a hidden (Mitt Romney) agenda. Otherwise, to keep the peace, I would not have gone for the jugular. I think his mormon beliefs are germane to the discussion.
You have the option to complain to the moderator.
Well, very few people have demanded to see birth certificates from other Prez candidates, and for most purposes a short form is accepted. But what I had in mind was the “born of two U.S. citizen parents on U.S. soil” definition of “natural born citizen” which 99% of birthers had not even thought about before Obama came on the scene.
Still alot of residual anger and mistrust from the campaign. People in the base of what was supposed to be a 50 year majority didn’t like being shut out. Remember the kill him at the McCain rally? Or that elderly women who didn’t trust Obama because “he is an Arab”.
I’m not a PC person but I’m a realist. The MSM will continue to skewer us with people like Taitz and these birthers until either a new story pops up or the birthers just kinda give up. 9/11 truthers would gain some exposure every once in a while but just burn out. Eventually Dems just ignored them and moved on a few issues and got power in Congress.
We’ll have to wait these guys out, too much is at stake to lose the party to them. However given the strength of their convictions and their agnst from 2008 taking them out head on won’t work. Not really sure what the best thing to do right now is. A start would be at least us like minded FReepers getting a list or something together. Nice tag by the way.
Hear, hear!
My concern is that if we no longer want this qualification to apply, there is a process to amend the Constitution that we must follow; not, as Obama worshippers who have been joined by the "anti-birthers" in this matter, simply want to ignore (at least until the next conservative candidate runs for the office).
If you felt he had a Romney agena, then say that, we would have all understood...and perhaps agreed, though I would wait for this poster to respond before I made such a judgement. You could easily have done that without casting so broad a net as to disparage millions.
I can tell you, I am LDS, but I was not born LDS, I made the decision and it was a rational and personal decision between me and my Maker 39 years ago...I do not foist it, or shove it on others. I do not wave it in front of others.
...and neither did this poster on this thread, irrespective of our disagreement on the issue he did raise on this thread.
I bear a simple witness to your statements about my faith, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, my redeemer and my only path to salvation, irrespective of what you may believe or say about it. In the end, I am grateful that He, a perfect Savior, will be the judge of my heart.
You may feel otherwise, but from my perspective, you have not gone for, or touched anything remotely close to the juglar. Your statements about my faith have no bearing on my heartfelt convictions. Sadly, they say more about you, than they do about me.
Again, I ask you to reconsider. It's up to you. I do not need to and will not ask a moderator. Your statements have dispareged me, my entire family, many of my freinds, and in truth, IMHO, anyone who values civil discourse, whether LDS or not.
Anyhow, I have said my peace on this, others may judge for themsleves the merits of each side.
Mel wrote, “I agree, I was just pondering what Beck said. thanks”
Oh, good, I’m glad to hear it. I didn’t mean to direct my tirade at you specifically. But the format here requires us to pick a post to respond to, and your post was the springboard for my thoughts.
post 99 says it quite well.
Not true. Just another conspiracy nut lie.
It used to be true, dipshit. It was certainly true 20+ years ago when he got his first passport.
What are you people's problem? No other Pres. candidate has secreted away their past like this gnome. Youre such an apologist.
Aren’t you worried about his future a little more than his past? He won’t be unseated over this. He will use this as a smoke screen to advance his agenda. Details of passport applications are useless the State Department could have leaked his passport when http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23736254/ that happened. Nothing came out when all this money was at stake! The money is gone the suits have left all that is left is crazies and people willing to con you guys out of dough at time.
And post 99 says nothing. Random books do not set our laws. The Constitution, US Code, or Court decisions do.
I first got a passport 20+ years ago. And the only birth certificate I've ever had in my possession is the short form.
Is Obama being secretive with his documents? Yes!
Is he hiding something? Yes!
Do we have a right to see those documents? YES!
So get a court to order it, because he isn't going to release the documents out of the goodness of his heart. And in the meantime, stop lying about the law and making up legal definitions that do not exist! It damages your case.
LOL, yeah, I'm an Obama apologist. I joined up back in 2000 in hopes that I could derail any possible future opposition to some dipwad state legislator nobody ever heard of in Illinois. You caught me! Curses, my master plan has been foiled. And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling Birthers and Lou Dobbs!
Frankly speaking, there are law suits progressing that are requesting information he surely has in his possession, and it is only a first step to getting his whole rancid clandestine past out in the open.
So youre worried they use this for misdirection?? But They use EVERYTHING for misdirection ! Thats what Marxists do! (and cowardly RINO's hide under the bed)
What are you afraid of? Theyre going to call us crazies?? Is that it? Oh, ok, Obama isnt hiding anything, Rahm Emanuel is a nice guy! Do you like us now? .. Thank you for liking us!
LOL! If I had a nickel for everytime somebody called me a troll I could pay off my mortgage.
thats what they do when they bring insufficient logic to the debate, descend to namecalling.
proven how? none of these alleged citizenships trump
US natural born status as you well know.
Stupid assertions like this gain us nothing. Bring some proof to the table or cease bring up this patent nonsense.
They’ll always call us crazies. I’m only bothered when it’s true.
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