Posted on 07/07/2009 6:33:08 AM PDT by joeclarke
I was looking at a Free Republic post Is There Salvation Outside The Catholic Church which incurred an astounding reaction among Freepers. You won't see that kind of post in Huffington or Kos.
I am a former Catholic, now merely and simply a nondenominational "Christian" not bound, or aided by Protestantism or Catholicism. I received an excellent education in parochial grade and high schools, was an altar boy, and like most boys in the 1950's I was steered toward Catholic seminary. I did not go. Again, my parochial education, except for some of the doctrines, gave me an advantage in life which no public school, then or now, could have afforded.
Sometime after a bad experience, let's say, in Vietnam I started to search for The Truth, so of course, I found Christ, or He found me, or we did it together - not sure which. For the past thirty years, nevertheless, I have been on a spiritual journey which necessarily requires sorting out teachings, doctrines, catechisms, etc, but it all comes down to basically believing in Christ. Not a man, or a woman, living or dead.
After becoming Born Again I was like a reformed alcoholic condemning all of my Catholic upbringing, and faulting everything RC taught -even some of their Biblical teachings. In the simplicity of Christ I have learned to appreciate some of the elements of the RC, even in the Sacrifice of the Mass where Jesus, accordingly, is sacrificed again, and again, and again, which I totally believe is not Biblical [Hebrews 10]. Nevertheless, as I marched to Mass every day for 9 years in grade school and sung the hymns, and listened to a sermon from the Epistles and Gospels - at every Mass - I gleened something spiritual. The Eucharist, transubstantiation, the primacy of the Pope, the mystic powers of the Priests, the over veneration of saints, especially Mary - where as a kid, I would pray the Rosary to statue of Mary every night for years, probably did not help me to know about a "personal Jesus" for many years thereafter. He was only touchable by what the Catholics call "saints" who, according to them, is pretty impossible for the average Joe to become. According to the Bible, all believers are saints or "holy ones."
My question, "Are Any Catholics Saved?" is just as difficult to answer as "Are Any Protestants Saved?" The Episcopalians ordain gays and the Catholics have John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and Nancy Pelosi, so we can induce that major denominations of whatever stripe cannot claim to be that sole church or Haven of Rest - if not only because they harbor so many members that are contrary to all that is called holy. The genuine Ecclesia (Church, or called- out ones) are those who are born again and bearing fruit which bears out their salvation - who may be hampered by some of their church's doctrine, yet not condemned by God for some or many misinterpretations of the Bible and the Spirit of God.
Can I condemn individual Catholics or Protestants who do not completely escape as I did because I think some or most of their doctrine is an abomination to God? I do believe individuals will be judged according to their faith, even if it is not perfect in every way, shape, and form. Mine isn't. Is yours?
How can someone believe that the Eucharist (which always means "thanks") in the Bible somehow is the consuming of Christ - when He is a spirit, and according to John Chapter 6, Jesus said, "He that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." We certainly need to "eat" Christ spiritually more than what can be offered once a week, or for many, once a year, at Mass. I am not going to pick at so many other Catholic doctrines, I don't agree with at this time, and I also cannot commend them for every good teaching they purport. It all comes down to whether the individual has faith in Christ, despite being confused by some of his church's man-made doctrines which do not allow for faith in the fullness of the Person of Christ.
Where did the Episcopalians get the idea that sodomy "is a gift from God," except from people like their newest female priestess who was elected by members who do not know the Bible from the Bagadavita? Protestantism which called the Roman Catholics "Antichrist" for centuries, has become more Antichrist than Antiochus Epiphanes.
Earnest Roman Catholics defend life, stay married longer, and best yet, oppose liberals, Islamic terrorists, Communists (except John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi's ilk) and have produced the likes of William Buckley and Pat Buchanan. They also venerate the Ten Commandmants, although Jesus commanded us to obey Two Commandmants. Love God, and Love Your Neighbor As Your Self.
It was not my purpose to exhaustively examine the intents of every Catholic's heart, but only to ask if some Catholics, like some Protestants, can be included in the real Church Of Jesus Christ. I say they can, but must be ever vigilant to Seek First The Kingdom Of God And His Righteousness.
Looking forward to an after life Purgatory (to literally purge sins) is not my idea of a a Saving Church, yet, the individual members may be surprised by a Father God who is more merciful than they have been taught.
You were able to reach that rather accurate understanding of her post because you approached her words charitably.
Obviously, whoever wrote your catechism is wrong...Just because someone made it up doesn't make it true...
Partaking of communion is the remembrance of Jesus' murder and suffering on the Cross...The breaking of the bread is the remembrance of Jesus broken body during that murder...The communion is NOT the Cross...The 'fruit of the vine' represents Jesus blood that was shed from his body...It is NOT the piercing of the spear into His body to complete the murder...
You are NOT re presenting the killing of Jesus...
PLUS, Jesus is not, nor was he ever a sacrifice for you to give...He was given for a sacrifice (by God) FOR YOU...
LOL
For disagreeing with your own personal interpretation of Scripture?
Christ instructs us otherwise. John 6
I cannot judge whether a person is going to hell, only God does that.
Honey child I told you I attended Bible teaching churches and I have spent all of my life in scripture. Since being Catholic, I do not skip over scripture but intake the whole.
Yes, the Church is full of all kinds of sinners, some grave, some not.
So is your church. No church is without it’s Judas’.
Apparently his Catholic education wasn't very good at all.
I also would like to point out, since some only read the sinners part. Yes we are sinners, some saved and some not.
The church is full of us all, and so is yours.
All churches are.
We are saved by Christ and need him everyday to walk the walk and talk the talk.
While doctrines are laid out and are available for our understanding in the old and new testaments, the basic truth is that “churches, denominations etc. as commonly understood are in fact man's attempt at execution of these doctrines. Some like one tenet better or more than others etc. Some are in fact false.
A personal, relevant and real relationship with Jesus Christ (All God, the Creator and all Man, the Sacrificial Lamb and Saviour is the only status of importance. Attendance and/or membership in a “church” are irrelevant compared to this.
This relationship must be entered into HIS way, not ours, otherwise it is a matter of convenience and likely false.
Seek and you shall find. God Bless
P.S. cold should be could
Thanks for sharing. Your journey sounds very close to mine. However, my journey went full circle back to the Church. If you want help make sure you keep your current belief system – avoid the following:
1. Do not read “Orthodoxy” by GK Chesterton.
2. Do not attend Mass regularly.
3. Do not study the book of Revelation too hard, get confused by the thousands of Protestant views and then read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn.
4. Do not read John 6.
5. Do not immerse yourself into a parish community.
Had I not done these things I would of stayed clear of the “heresy” and stayed in the “real” church you describe.
Sarcasm aside, I agree with you that the Church fails many times in teaching and evangelism. But then again, we are all human – burdened with a fallen world – only through Christ can we be saved. When the pope spoke about the Church as the ‘only’ way to salvation – he was speaking biblically. Christ only spoke about ONE church. The Roman Catholic Church historically goes back to Peter, Paul, Mary and of course Jesus himself. On the other hand, the catholic Church does not condemn other beliefs. Although it seems increasingly, these other groups of believers seem quick to condemn the Catholic Church.
You should have paid more attention in Mass.
So is your church. No church is without it’s Judas’.
That's true when you are talking about religious institutions...But since you know the scripture, you know there are no Judases in the Body of Christ...
Petronski...You missed the boat...It was the Roman Church that Jesus founded...And like the poster says, there is only one church...
God looks upon the heart, not the form of worship. Jesus said that if you accept him and his sacrifice you are saved.
I was 46, I took my time studying and praying, I had friends and priests who tried to help me speed up my journey and I told them it would happen in God’s good time.
The wonderful miracle of it was that when I finally said yes, my husband, who had never been baptized, oldest son, his wife and my DIL’s sister took the journey together. I firmly believe that I would have gone alone if I had rushed headlong into Catholicism as I sometimes wanted to do.
Cool, my mom and dad were the first to come into the Church. Then my son came down with cancer and wanted to go to Mass with them, I went also and that was it.
The Holy Spirit grabbed me at 10 and actually moved me forward to the altar. When I walked into the Church and Mass, The Holy Spirit’s pull was the same.
David, and mom and dad were the facilitators of my whole family coming in.
Our family ancestors were Catholic too.
Attendance and/or membership in a “church” are irrelevant compared to this.
Amen.
***Cool, my mom and dad were the first to come into the Church. Then my son came down with cancer and wanted to go to Mass with them, I went also and that was it.
The Holy Spirit grabbed me at 10 and actually moved me forward to the altar. When I walked into the Church and Mass, The Holy Spirit’s pull was the same.
David, and mom and dad were the facilitators of my whole family coming in.
Our family ancestors were Catholic too.***
Welcome home.
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