Posted on 03/25/2009 7:26:37 AM PDT by Notoriously Conservative
I don't know the status of parenting in America. But I know a little about the status of education in America. Parents' growing inability to impose manners and limits on their kids when the kids are in school is reflected in record dropout rates, as well as teen drug and alcohol abuse, teen sex, and unwed pregnancies. Maybe it's parenting that's on the decline, more than the schools.
Exhibit A: My wife and I have just been seated for dinner when the maitre d' walks over and seats a young family at the table next to us and the kids start carrying on like orangutans on a leash.
The parents are going, "Timmy, that's not nice, don't throw your food, stop stuffing your mashed potatoes up your nose." Are mom and dad having fun yet, picking food up off the floor, apologizing to people like us, and wiping food flung across the table off their faces?
Some parents still have this attitude that their kids are too special to be burdened by discipline. And the rest of us are supposed to put up with their little mutants. That attitude really pisses me off.
I hate to break it to them, but the kids aren't special, and I don't have to put up with their behavior. If you can't control your obnoxious little brats, leave them home.
They don't belong out in public annoying other people, period. I don't remember a generation of kids ever so indulged and enabled to behave so badly. What's going on?
I remember as a kid I was expected to behave myself out in public or suffer the wrath of one very angry father. And of all the things that used to piss him off, those expectations didn't seem unreasonable. Something's gone terribly wrong here. My guess is it has to do...
(Excerpt) Read more at notoriouslyconservative.com ...
My buddies kids are all different. The oldest, a cute and sometimes precocious little 5 year old little girl, is an absolute sweetheart. The next, a 4 year old little boy, who seems to get an angry look on his face quite easily. My job is to make him smile more. Mom and Dad are working with him to quit whining and not be angry. The youngest, a toddler boy, that smiles at the drop of a hat. He's ALWAYS got a mischievous twinkle in his eye, which makes him my favorite out of the three. When he gets into something, he's learned how to flash that smile. Mom and Dad are both aware how he's learned to use it, and its funny to watch. But they also keep a tight rein on him.
They are three VERY GOOD kids. All with different personalities. And none of them "perfect". But they are all very well behaved.
Currently the primary struggles center around bedtime. The wife likes to climb in bed with Nublet and sing her a lullaby and talk to her a bit after we read her bedtime stories. That’s all well and good, but lately the kid’s been interrupting her during the lullaby, grabbing her hair when she tries to get up, even whacking her with a stuffed animal once. And then screams like a banshee for 30+ minutes when the wife leaves the room.
OTOH, she’s only hit me once. I told her to put something down three times, she didn’t do it, so I grabbed her arm to take the item, and when I did, she whacked me on the knee. She got a VERY hard swat on the tail and my best R. Lee Ermey DI-in-the-face-Parris-Island-style explanation of how you NEVER hit Mommy or Daddy (minus the cursing, of course). A few minutes later after the sniffling stopped, we ended up talking very rationally about why it was bad, and then she hugged me.
She’s a fantastic kid, very sweet most of the time, likes to randomly walk up to us and hug us and say “I wuv you.” But she’s very strong-willed.
}:-)4
That’s great!
All kids test the boundaries and limits with parents....it’s a way of establishing themselves as their personalities develop.As responsible parents,we set those limits and guard them tenaciously and the kids get the idea that certain behavior is within those limits and is ok,and the behavior that’s outside the limits is verboten. As far as corporal punishment goes,I sincerely believe that kids thrive and grow on it! I believe that if a kid doesn’t get discipline,they will do whatever they can to get their parent’s attention,since parental approval is essential to kids. They need to know when they’re doing well,and when they’re not. It makes them more emotionally stable.We stopped spanking our son after age 6,when he was old enough to where “grounding” was more effective,and we spoke to him-a lot-and not like a little baby. With the exception of a few stumbles here and there,he’s been a good kid,and has a wife and son of his own now,and is a good daddy-and when his son acts up,he gets punished.
It didn’t take too many times before they got the idea. No good behavior. No fun. Period, end of story.
BTW I do sometimes see very young children at restaurants late at night. They are fussy, because they are SLEEPY (you can tell a sleepy baby cry). Or, they are hungry and the food is taking too long. Generally Mom/Dad is ignoring them. I think this is terribly unfair. Kids do need to sleep when they’re tired and eat when they’re hungry. It’s hard to teach them a lesson if either of those 2 needs are not being met.
Oh my goodness. Sounds like a job for a bar of soap!
Heck, yeah. And if you lived an a close-knit neighborhood, you’d get your butt whupped by every adult you passed on the way home, too.
Hairbrush? I had that, and the wooden spoon and a wire hanger...basically whatever was at hand. :) Ah, those were the days. :)
My oldest son was a bear to put to bed for awhile. He did get over it (altho he is most definitely a night person, even now as an adult). We did the whole ritual thing (bath/story/prayers/chat/lights out) and eventually, it worked. When he got a little older, I would let him leave the light on a little while to read, but he was not to get out of bed. The other two were much easier in this regard, for some reason.
Defiant - that's the word I was looking for. That was the look on his bratty little face when I tried being polite.
Parenting is not taught, and it needs to be. My mother taught parenting classes at church (one of the few places that MIGHT teach parenting) when I was young, and I remember her going over those lessons with us. Neither punishment nor praise are handled out well by too many parents. A pat on the back is a wonderful thing for a kid...sometimes you just have to vary the location to the 'lower' back...
As a former waitress, I can tell you this: Long ago I stopped working the morning/day/evening shifts. For years, I refused to work before 10pm. It's not that I can't stand other people's kids, I love kids. A restaurant can be a dangerous place, though. A waitress carrying a tray loaded with food in one hand and a pot of steaming coffee in the other can do real and significant damage to an innocent bystander if she happens to trip on someone's three year old kid. Not a lot of kids out between 10pm and 6am.
Where I live, parents are a vanishing breed. They're being replaced by a bunch of couch-dwelling buddies.
I do think a lot has to do with the individual kids' personalities. We could go anywhere with my first two, no tantrums, no begging for stuff at the store. We thought we had this parenting thing down! Then our third one came along and our life changed drastically for about three years. No going out to eat as a family; I dropped all my outside activities where I had to have my kids with me. It was very humbling, and I am very cautious about judging other parents. It turns out his personality is the most like mine out of our four, so I guess payback is a b****. ;-) He is turning out great, so I can't complain, but I really thought I would not survive those first three years. Now he brags that he is the reason that there is five years between him and his younger sister!
If while in church a child gets too fidgety or maybe talks to another too loud or too much, Mom or Dad simply lean forward and look at the child, who then sits back, sits up and is more quiet.
The older folks at church always walk up to them and tell them how good their kids are. 1 older gentleman calls my buddy SuperDad.
At home the house is filled with the pitterpatter (ok maybe not pitterpatter) of little feet, and happy laughter and shouting. Sometimes, its not always so happy. But even at home discipline is close by. Usually a look, maybe a slight word gets attention. Sometime a sterner talking to. And then there is the time when discipline must be applied. Dad takes the misbehaved one away. Maybe to the bathroom or a bedroom. They are gone for 10-15 minutes. When they come back, you could never tell that anything happened behind the door, or that the child had ever misbehaved.
Once I saw my buddy take one of the kids away, and one of the other kids had the slightest of smirks on his face, I might not have thought anything of it, but my buddy wasn't going to have any of that, and asked if he'd like to be next. The child respectfully said no Dad, and changed his attitude.
My buddy takes his children to an isolated room, he's not using humiliation to discipline a child. He talks about the situation, STERNLY, with them, and then gives them a spanking, I assume, because I have never heard yelling or crying come out of the room. After the spanking, they must talk a lot, because he doesn't leave the room till they both do, and there is no crying or sniffling or even blood shot eyes. No sign of crying. And when they come out the child is as well behaved as ever.
These kids ADORE Daddy, there is no FEAR of Daddy. But there is respect.
Its because of the discipline at home, and the boundaries and cosequences there, that the children behave well in public.
I don't know if my buddy has ever swatted a child in public, I have never seen it. I've never had a reason to see it. He's usually pretty aware of what his children are doing, and a quick word usually reins them in.
My buddy doesn't spank or scold in public, because he doesn't have to. And he's one of the most conservative people I know.
If he accomplished this with 1-2 or 3 kids, you might be able to say he's lucky. The fact he's done it with all 7 tells me he's found a system that works.
Anoreth was a shrieker, too. She just like to hear herself. It’s been outgrown, though.
Me to.
Keep it up Lee.
Dennis Prager did a show about this yesterday. Here it is if you or anyone is interested:
Direct Link to show mentioned: Ultimate Issues Hour: Should a Child Fear His Parents?
Prager H3: In chapter 19, verse 3 of Leviticus, the third book of the Hebrew Bible, it says “you shall fear, every man, his mother and his father.” Is this admonition still valid in our modern world? Dennis argues that it’s more important than ever.
Your buddy and his wife sound like awesome parents. Good for them.
This is a key point that I don't think many others have caught, including the author. People are saying that the problem is people's or society's being "child focussed," but I don't think that's it at all. The situation we have has developed because it's easier for the adults.
For example, why are children in a restaurant to start with? In most cases, because it's easier for the parents than getting a babysitter for the children, or all of them eating a meal at home. Unless it's a travel stop or a business specifically catering to children, there's usually no benefit for the children in eating out.
General poor discipline has a similar cause, in many cases. It's easier for the adults to ignore bad behavior than to eliminate it. It's easier to complain about teachers and schools than it is to enforce academic discipline. It's easier to buy children or teens whatever they ask for than to say, "No."
I’m dubious about advice from someone as neurotic as Prager.
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