Posted on 01/06/2009 11:52:38 AM PST by Kevmo
1. I am Sandra Ramsey Lines, With an adddres at... I am a former federal examiner and law enforcement officer. I began training as a forensic document examiner in 1991. I am a Certified Diplomat of Forensic Sciences, a member of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners, a member of the Southwestern Association of Forensic Document Examiners, and a member of the Questioned Document Subcommittee of the American Society of Testing and Materials. My background and credentials are set forth in Exhibit I attached hereto.
2. I have reviewed the attached affidavit posted on the internet from “Ron Polarik,” [PDF] who has declined to provide his name because of a number of death threats he has received. After my review and based on my years of experience, I can state with certainty that the COLB presented on the internet by the various groups, which include the “Daily Kos,” the Obama Campaign, “Factcheck.org” and others cannot be relied upon as genuine. Mr. Polarik raises issues concerning the COLB that I can affirm. Software such as Adobe Photoshop can produce complete images or alter images that appear to be genuine; therefore, any image offered on the internet cannot be relied upon as being a copy of the authentic document.
3. Upon a cursory inspection of the internet COLB, one aspect of the image that is clearly questionable is the obliteration of the Certificate No. That number is a tracking number that would allow anyone to ask the question, “Does this number refer to the Certification of Live Birth for the child Barack Hussein Obama II?” It would not reveal any further personal information; therefore, there would be no justifiable reason for oliterating it.
4. In my experience as a forensic document examiner, if an original of any document exists, that is the document that must be examined to obtain a definitive finding of genuineness or non-genuineness. In this case, examination of the vault birth certificate for President-Elect Obama would lay this issue to rest once and for all.
SANDRA RAMSEY LINES Forensic Document Examiner ........ Paradise Valley, Arizona 85253
SRLines@cox.net
Former Federal Examiner Retired Law Enforcement Officer
* Identification of handwriting, hand printing, signatures, typewriting, photocopying, and printing processes
* Examination of paper, inks, stamps, seals, and other documentary evidence to determine identity, source, authenticity, and possible date
* Forensic analysis of business and medical records to determine whether there are alterations, additions, deletions, erasures, substitutions, and/or if the records were manufactured in a normal course-of-business manner
* Distinguishing forgery from genuineness
* Restoration or decipherment of erased, obliterated or hidden writing
* Expert testimony in state and federal courts, and regulatory hearings
Certified Diplomate, American Board of Forensic Document Examiners Fellow, American Academy of Forensic Sciences Member, American Society of Questioned Document Examiners Member, Southwestern Association of Forensic Document Examiners Member, American Society of Testing and Materials, Forensic Sciences Committee, and Questioned Document Subcommittee
I would argue that doesn't matter. HRS 338-17 states:
Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]
Notice the dates prior to 1961. Because the website of the Hawaii Department of Health" states:
"Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) A PERSON BORN IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY." -
Seems to me its not unreasonable to ask that Obama produce his vault copy of whatever birth records he has to judicial review. PERIOD. That is ALL anyone is asking.
Even some embarrassment or private issue Obama doesn't want seen publicly doesn't make sense to me anymore for him to be fighting this. There is no reason whatsoever to prohibit a private judicial review that would never be released to the public. Obama is even fighting that. So yeah, something stinks. And where there is smoke there is usually a fire.
It's hard to keep real books in anything these days.
It's an Oprah world. It's a Jon Stewart world. Feelings and snarkiness are all that's allowed.
Feelings are why Lady Caroline will be seated. Feelings are why Senator Burris is barred. Snarkiness is why Franken will be enabled, and snarkiness is what gets Barney Frank elected again and again and again.
Feelings are what make Santa Clause and Obama. Snarkiness is what makes people ferally hate Bush and Palin. Feelings are why McCain is welcomed back, after promising to genuflect to them.
Feelings have made us what we are.
So yes, what you feel about the case of Obama's birth citizenship circumstances -- that is what's really important. The actuality doesn't count, and any real investigation would be to deny the validity of feeelings. It would be mean.
Obama violated the Polarik Principle. He’s toast.
I suggest it does. Obama was 22 when that law was passed. If he was indeed born overseas then any birth certificate would have been filed under the earlier laws. Was it even allowed?
Seems to me its not unreasonable to ask that Obama produce his vault copy of whatever birth records he has to judicial review. PERIOD. That is ALL anyone is asking.
And you would have a better chance of forcing such a disclosure if you could provide some evidence supporting your belief Obama was not born in the U.S. I don't think a court in the land will touch it without some evidence Obama is lying.
and who would have brought it out? lots of lawyers being paid to hide it, must be a reason. Run back to DU now. They miss you
Governor Lingle has never said that Obama was born in HI. Where have you read this and could you post a link, please?
Adding - Fukino never said he was born in HI either. Only one article has Fukino’s subordinate, when questioned by the leftist reporter from the Washington Swamp blog, apparently, says “yes, that’s what Fukino meant”.
Leftist blogs are not the be-all and end-all of accurate reportage.
There is no other mention anywhere that I’ve seen of any HI state anyone saying that 0bama was born there. If you have such a reference, we’d all like to see it.
Nope. The only people it doesn’t matter to are Obama supporters who don’t give a fig whether he’s natural born or not.
If Hawaiian law admits to ‘altered’ certificates, as well as allows judicial review of those certificates as evidence, than Hawaiian law would subsequently allow for that same judicial review of Obama. Since no one knows what those documents actually say, or whether or not they’ve been altered, then it most certainly does matter. Only a non-constitutionalist would suggest that it doesn’t matter. Trust me: If Obama were a Republican IT WOULD MATTER.
And you still have yet to make a case for why you (I presume a Citizen of the USA) should have to provide your certified birth certificate to the DMV just to be able to drive a car, while Obama, who is about to become the most powerful man in the world - does not. I have yet to see an Obama supporter such as yourself answer that question satisfactorily.
20 years ago I had to prove my child was a citizen and had to provide a certified copy of that child’s birth certificate just to play softball.
It is ludicrous that a man about to have his hand on the nuclear button, does not.
As to there being no evidence that Obama was not born in the U.S. - you obviously have not been reading this thread. A forgery is clear evidence that something is amiss. And the burden of proof is not ‘on us’. Its on Obama and he has consistently failed to comply.
Thanks, LucyT and Polarik.
Ping.
Or those who've read the law and wonder what was in effect when Obama was born.
And you still have yet to make a case for why you (I presume a Citizen of the USA) should have to provide your certified birth certificate to the DMV just to be able to drive a car, while Obama, who is about to become the most powerful man in the world - does not. I have yet to see an Obama supporter such as yourself answer that question satisfactorily.
Because the law requires we present proof of citizenship to the DMV before getting a license. What law specifies what person or agency a presidential candidate had to present his proof of qualification to?
As to there being no evidence that Obama was not born in the U.S. - you obviously have not been reading this thread. A forgery is clear evidence that something is amiss. And the burden of proof is not ‘on us’. Its on Obama and he has consistently failed to comply.
I've read all of them. And I'm still waiting for the evidence he was born elsewhere to be presented. Some sort of documentation of foreign birth, something like that.
Rahm still in Africa? That was really suspicious to me. zero head to Hawaii and rham to Africa. How convenient. They could fake a bc to show in case the supremes hear the case, and I would guess it could pass as real if the ones that examined it were on the bama side.
I think if this is true and he wasn't born there, the evidence lies where he was born, not in the US. Just my opinion. I also don't think Canada should be rule out. Kenya could be a smoke screen. Canada makes sense to me because she visited her friend in Seattle right after he was born and didn't know how to change a diaper???? and she was alone? Then enrolled in school there. Home for unwed mothers in Canada???
It is possible that until bama ran that he never realized he wasn't born in Hawaii. Toot and Mom fixed that by filing for the COLB. I doubt there is any BC in Hawaii that says he was born in a hospital there. If he shows it, if it's legit, this will be dropped. Why won't he? Would you let cases go to the Supremes and pay attorneys to defend them? or would get it, show it, end it? Simple answer to me.
So either he can't produce a valid Hawaiian bc, or he figures he will let it drag out to keep people focused on this and not focused on other things(we know there are plenty) and/or he simply wants to be an ass. Take your pick
That is a lie. she never said any such thing. There is a post on here somewhere and there is an article from a newspaper and she actually said nobody even knew him and insinuated he wasn't a real Hawaiian.
Lingle suggested that Obama is an impostor:
“Senator Obama likes to say he’s from Hawaii. But, the truth is, I’ve never met him in my life. He’s never called me on the phone. Ninety-five percent of the people in my state had never heard of him before he ran for president.”
Join the club. I'm still waiting for evidence he was born in the USA to be presented.
So far nothing but a forgery, thousands of dollars spent on legal teams and lawsuits stopping the release of any and all birth documentaion along with all college records, etc. etc.
Plus there doesn't seem to be any hospital records for Obama's birth, anywhere in HI. There are 'reports' of one in Mombasa, Kenya. But wait, the Kenyan govt. sealed all records pertaining to Obama there. Shoot.
How about eyewitness testimony perhaps? Nope. Wait, we do have one personal eyewitness, his paternal grandmother. Oh but fooey, she says it was Kenya, darn. Guess that don't count.
Well it just had to be in HI then.../s
“I submit that I’m not the troll”
Maybe you’re overwhelmed by a sense of helplessness due to the fact that so many people voted for Obama combined with the fact that his colleagues, associates and supporters have resorted to tactics such as intimidation, threats, strong arming and even acts of terrorism.
Maybe you suffer from a form of Stockholm Syndrome—you are forced, by a fear of Obama which overpowers you and obliterates all prior loyalty to your long held core beliefs, to identify with Obama and fiercely oppose his critics.
Obama Stockholm Syndrome
OSS
coward trolls who slither back into their
HOLEs
h o l e
Helplessly Overwhelmed Loyal to Evil
O.S.S.H.O.L.E. trolls
Well, it needs work.
Don’t forget the latest evidence that the house Obama supposedly lived in was occupied by someone else.
You’re a blatant liar.
"The state of Hawaii vouched for the certificate...not the one on line-it was checked he was born in Hawaii." punchbowl floater
For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai‘i.”
###
For more information, contact: Janice Okubo
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf
***************************************************
This is what the Hawaiian Health Department said about Obama's COLB:
Janice Okubo: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”
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