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To: Non-Sequitur
That law was adopted in 1982. What did the earlier laws say?

I would argue that doesn't matter. HRS 338-17 states:

Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]

Notice the dates prior to 1961. Because the website of the Hawaii Department of Health" states:

"Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) A PERSON BORN IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY." -

Seems to me its not unreasonable to ask that Obama produce his vault copy of whatever birth records he has to judicial review. PERIOD. That is ALL anyone is asking.

121 posted on 01/06/2009 6:25:30 PM PST by conservativegramma
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To: conservativegramma
I would argue that doesn't matter.

I suggest it does. Obama was 22 when that law was passed. If he was indeed born overseas then any birth certificate would have been filed under the earlier laws. Was it even allowed?

Seems to me its not unreasonable to ask that Obama produce his vault copy of whatever birth records he has to judicial review. PERIOD. That is ALL anyone is asking.

And you would have a better chance of forcing such a disclosure if you could provide some evidence supporting your belief Obama was not born in the U.S. I don't think a court in the land will touch it without some evidence Obama is lying.

125 posted on 01/06/2009 6:45:13 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: conservativegramma; Non-Sequitur; All
I believe you both may find the following sections will clarify the issue:

§338-15

Late or altered certificates. A person born in the State may file or amend a certificate after the time prescribed, upon submitting proof as required by rules adopted by the department of health. Certificates registered after the time prescribed for filing by the rules of the department of health shall be registered subject to any evidentiary requirements that the department adopts by rule to substantiate the alleged facts of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §19; RL 1955, §57-18; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-15; am L 1972, c 66, §1(1); am L 1997, c 305, §2]

§338-16

Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”. (b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates. (c) Such evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file. (d) When an applicant does not submit the minimum documentation required by the rules for late registration or when the state registrar finds reasons to question the validity or adequacy of the certificate or the documentary evidence, the state registrar shall not register the late certificate and shall advise the applicant of the reason for this action. The department of health may by rule provide for the dismissal of an application which is not actively prosecuted. (e) As used in this section, “late” means one year or more after the date of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §20; RL 1955, §57-19; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-16; am L 1972, c 66, §1(2); am L 1997, c 305, §3]

And finally the law gramma posted before: §338-17

Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]

Note the portions in bold for emphasis (other than the section titles). These bold letters demonstrate these three laws are written in relation to one another, and all are in relation to a person born in the State, but not to people not born outside the state.

Now of course there exists the possibility of registering a birth that occured out of state,

§338-17.8, Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child. (b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate. (c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

However as one can see this law was adopted in 1982, and there exist no laws prior to this that such a provision applies to. That is, it is permissible now to register the birth of one's child in the state of HI if one's child was born in another state (or another country), but prior to 1982, the only "amendments" that could be made to one's BC was if one was born in the state of HI to begin with.

The 1982 law obviously can't be retroactive either, as it would create a giant loophole for identity thieves to exploit.

Thus, as the current law stands now, one can register a birth of a child in another country in HI, but before 1982, no such provision existed for a child born in another state, much less another country. The only "amendments" that could be done were to BC's of children born in the state of HI.

Similarly for individuals born in foreign countries adopted in HI.

§338-20.5

Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:

(1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and

(2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and

(3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:

(A) Date of assumption of custody;
(B) Sex;
(C) Color or race;
(D) Approximate age of child;
(E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;
(F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;
(G) True or probable country of birth.
The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and

(4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.

(b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]

274 posted on 01/07/2009 11:39:58 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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