Posted on 04/11/2008 12:16:58 PM PDT by CottShop
I suppose a lot of people wonder why a loving God would keep Himself so hidden and unseen when so many people it seems are looking for Him. Some people I suppose wonder why God doesnt just make Himself known to everyone and just let them decide after His physical revelation is made clear?
First off I want to point out that for God to make Himself physically known to us, God would have had to have been physically with everyone right from the beginning of creation, to the present, as people are born every single second, in great numbers, and people would constantly need to be seeing Him personally. Secondly, I want to point out that God was in fact with a great many people- physically and undeniably, for a very long time, and yet, they still refused to believe in Him.
You might be thinking Yeah, but they (the Israelites) were then left alone while Moses went atop the mountain, and they just forgot and became scared, and so temporarily lost their faith- thats understandable. I would disagree. God had lived with them, performing one supernatural miracle after another in their presence, and yet, what should have been far more than enough to satisfy them for a lifetime, was quickly forgot once God was separated from them?...
...I will make the claim here, that it is perhaps easier to serve a God who must be sought, than it is to keep serving a God that is constantly with us, and it is perhaps even easier, and it certainly takes a more genuine heart, to find a God who is partially hid than it is to seek a God that is here physically with us.
Sounds strange, I know, but let me explain...
Read the rest at http://sacredscoop.com/?p=766
(Excerpt) Read more at sacredscoop.com ...
Sound’s like the proverbial, not seeing the forest through the trees.
This was written by Francis Collins who was head of the Human Genome project.
Your question is a profound one, and one not easily answered.
Paul tells us in Romans that God has revealed himself to all mankind by His creation. The more we learn of the complexity of the cell, the basis building block of life, them more we can appreciate that.
Genesis says that man was made in the image of God. Most commentaries agree that the scripture is talking about the characteristics of man which sets him apart from the rest of creation. The ability to think abstractly and to create: art, engineering, science, mathematics, etc.
Still, Jesus said that he spoke in parables so that, hearing, they might not hear. In other places, he said, “He who has ears, let him hear.” It seems that God is willing to reveal Himself when we have “ears to hear.” That’s how it was in my life. I did not have a personal experience with God until I got down on my knees, humbling myself, and asked God to show me if He was there. Within two weeks, I was transformed, my view of the world was completely changed, and without my trying to change - without any indoctrination (I wasn’t going to church or under the teaching of any instructor) - it was a change I did not expect.
After the fall of Adam and Eve, the Bible says God called out, “Adam, where are you?” In a sense, man is hiding from God. Until we are willing to humble ourselves before the God of all creation, we are in rebellion to Him, and it seems to me that He refuses to force Himself on us. Instead, He calls to us, in a voice we can hear down in our souls if we will humble ourselves and recognize our need for Him.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
Just followed that link you put up and if you really believe that guy then your system of epistemology is really strange.
His first two points are fine, his third and fourth are not.
“Third, there is the question of whether we have a reason for our knowledge. We can know some things without being able to lead others to that knowledge by reasons. Many Christians think God’s existence is like that.”
This is otherwise as “proof my by say so”. It does have legitimacy, hell we use it in courts all the time...but we also realize that by itself it is not proof. Saying that you saw the guy who raped her is no where near as strong as DNA for example.
He’s also right again on is 5th point that philosophical proofs can be as good as scientific proofs but he wasn’t talking about philosophy, he was talking about the existence of some intelligent entity.
He believes the Universe is 14 billion years old which will be a problem for those who think differently.
Every school of thought is a 'problem' for one who thinks differently, that is the nature of thought and opinion- each person forms their own.
BTW, see you are new.. interesting screen name, but it may be a shock that you aren't a 'token' atheist, there are many here- contrary to false stereotypes of Conservatives.
DNA and the JCL on which it runs certainly is proof of intelligence, if nothing else.
Well that, and the babelfish in my ear.
When people look for proof, Luke 16: 19-31 always comes to mind:
The Rich Man and Lazarus
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
” ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ “
I will get back to this later, if that is OK.
I know what you are getting at. Not necessarily the proof of God, but why he chose to be less visible. In the Old Testament He spoke to people, "walked" with Adam in the garden, showed Himself through incredible ways (pillar of fire and cloud to guide the Israelites). In the New Testament God became flesh and dwelled among us. Jesus Christ was/is God and taught and did miracles as proof. Disciples were able to perform miracles as proof and also spoke in the languages of other men so that all understood at once. Now that the written Word of God is complete, there is no need for signs and wonders. God charged those who love Him to fulfill His great commission and tell others of Him. It is our duty out of love and obedience for our God that we are to do it. God is not as "visible" as before, but it is our duty let Him show through us to others.
Bible verses don’t count as evidence
“why God decided to remove His presence when it would seem that most people would accept Him if He were to be present dwelling among us.”
I believe this is where the free will comes to play. If God was here with us 24/7, in our faces, we would have no “choice” but to accept him.
Instead, he leaves us “hints” along the way. Look at how perfectly the human body was put together, just our brains alone. Our children, our earth, the way everything seems to work perfectly together (except of course when man comes along and messes it up).
I believe He wants us to choose Him with our own free will, nothing more, nothing forced.
Faith.
Amen!
The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince man he doesn’t exist.
And I would add....the Bible.
Which one?
“He believes the Universe is 14 billion years old which will be a problem for those who think differently.”
I have total faith in the Bible being the word of God. Genesis states the world was created in 6 days.....
However, I do not know what exactly He thinks a day is. I do believe He put in the 6 days wording for us so that we may try to comprehend the story.
What is the percentage of brain we use? 10? What are we up to now? If we only use such a tiny fraction of our brain, how on earth could we expect to know a fraction of what He knows?
Which one’s have you read? I’ve read a few (not in entire),as have friends, but whenever I (or we) came across something significant (or they), we would take out the Bible’s and compare, out loud, the same verse.
Bottom line....they may have “different words”, but same jist.
Have you read Romans 1:20?
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