Vanity: seeking opinions on .308 semi rifles

[taxed2death]

Can't decide which:

HK clone

http://www.ptr91.com/products_ptr.html

Springfield Armory

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=52

Or FN clone

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58B21CM

Any one with any practical experience with any of these...chime in please.

Thanks.

[xrp]

AR-10, due to the versatility of the AR-platform with picatinny rails and all of the sights, options and other accessories that can be mounted.

Rock River Arms makes some excellent rifles.

[ExSoldier]

I like the Springfield SOCOM 16 but be advised it is LOUD!

I also like the FAL carbine made by DPMS and it comes in some pretty neat camo patterns.

I'm no great fan of the AR-10 but that's just me.

The H&K family is simply to heavy and bulky.

[GingisK]

Joe, you and I are like bookends. I have two L1A1's, which aren't as nice as a genuine FN ... but they'll do. I have machine tools, so I made an adapter block to mount a Williams Foolproof Peep sight with target knobs. I made a front sight to match. It hits "real good".

I also have an out-of-the-box M1A in fiberglass. That one is a good shooting waepon as well.

The 7.62 NATO is my favorite. It is tough to find junk ammo these days.

[TLI]

Finally, some pics of my favorite little beaste. This is my "handgun in the bush" The exact model number is Colt M653 and is the lightest thing I have ever carried in the bush, 5.6 pounds

A close up

A "show off" pic...

[Shooter 2.5]

My son has the AR-10 and he likes it but he did have a problem with the timing of the gas system. I think it was cycling too fast. That led to failures to feed. It’s now dependable after going back to the factory. Early models may still have that problem. Magazines are an issue as far as price.

I have a Match M-1A. It helped bring me up from the low four hundreds[out of five hundred] in High Power Rifle. It’s a nice rifle but there is something wrong with the comfort zone. It’s not as handy as a Garand for some reason. Magazines are an issue as far as price.

I also have a FN-FAL. It’s handy but the butt stock is a little narrow. I understand it can be swapped out for a wider one. It has an adjustable gas system which is a plus.
Magazines are no problem at all the last time I checked. I bought dozens for about eight dollar a piece. Those deals may be a thing of the past.

I don’t care for HK’s. It’s just a personal opinion.

If you want a good rifle for a bad situation, I would go with the FAL. If you want to compete, hunt or defend yourself, I would go with a M1-A.

I almost forgot. I shot a DPMS yesterday. It was built on a AR15 frame but it was in .308. Recoil was nothing. It was also inexpensive. about 800. Magazines might be a big issue.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Boston’s Gun Bible has some great advice and indispensable analysis of the 308 selection process. Buy it and read it.

If you do get an HK, get the 1200 meter sight, a wider rubber buttpad from the belt fed version (HK21?), and a tac-latch.

But beware of some clones. You can get a real 91 for under $2000 if you shop carefully.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I forgot to add that you need to get an HK trigger job from http://www.williamstriggers.com/

[Squantos]

What I used, use and will continue to carry......

[MileHi]

Gawd, that’s purty...

[wardaddy]

Buy the best glass.....

good glass might cost 3 times what a good enough .308 bolt action would

or a decent semi-auto...I enjoyed FNLARs a little once

Khales, Swarovski, Zeiss....there are really no substitutes for light

[oyez]

I has just about to buy one, but my wife convinced me she needed a Kimber 1911 TLE II. I’ll just have to wait.

[Squantos]

Must keep soft squeezy toy happy !!!

[archy]

I've used and owned most of the 7.62 rifles named in both civilian and military versions since qualifying as expert with the M14 during Basic Training at Ft Knox in 1966. But I was then happily sent to Germany, and among my other happy tasks, spent some time at the 7th Army NCO Academy giving young sergeants-to-be a quickie familiarization firing course on the other NATO weapons, so I'm very familiar with the German G1 FAL and H&K G3 from which the H&K91 is derived, as well as the British L1A1 SLR version of the FAL, the Austrian Stg58 version of the FAL, and a few others.

My summary, quick and dirty? If you plan on using a telescopic sight, go with a M1A target-semi version of the M14. The iron sights and trigger are supurb, and the mounts available for fitting serious sniper scopes are in their third generation. And if the rifle's *service grade* and not fully target glass bedded, it'll take down into a 33-inch long carry case/ drag bag. Keep the front and rear sight screws and bolts fully tightened, and keep the bolt roller well-lubricated- if one corrodes and splits, the rifle remains out of service until it's replaced, which requires an armorer's tool. That's really a consideration for those operating in the sandbox or running off full magazines of full-auto fire, but it is one of the first spots where trouble develops in the system. Magazines for the M14 are pricey, running around $35 each for original GI issue. Of the less expensive surplus offerings, some are better than others, and some not very good for much at all. Learn to use your magazine charger and keep a couple of preloaded bandoleers and it's not a big deal.

The G-3 or H&K91: It's the choice if you've just GOT to have a folding or collapsing shorty stock, which will get it into the same 33-inch carry case or bag that the M14/M1A has to be field stripped to fit within. Magazines are inexpensive right now, so if you go that route, give me a FReepmail and I'll point you at a couple of really good deals. Some like the *turn-the-dial* diopter iron sight of the German G3, some don't. For those who don't, the open sight of the HK21 light machinegun will fit in place instead. Note that the gas system of the H&K, like that of the M14/M1A is not adjustable, so you need to be fussy about the ammo you get for either. I've had two German HK91 semis over the years, and more recently a Portugese-made XG3S, which was really, really nice.

Which brings us to what I use now: FALs. I find it hard to pick between the British/Australian L1A1 version, which uses a superior but less common magazine arrangement, hence more expensive, and the metric R1 FAL, which is my *serious business* rifle right at the moment. The adjustable gas system lets you use most any commercial or mil surplus ammo around, plus some commercial ammo that might not function as semiauto in other rifle's gas systems [Remington Accelerators,Glaser .308s, and *cat's whisper* reloads using .32 pistol or .30 carbine bullets.] Ammo for the G3 that won't cycle an M14 works fine in all four of my FALs, and surplus parts and metric magazines are easy to find and reasonably priced. [$7.00 each for used Austrian metric FAL mags from DSA] I don't happen to think much of most of the configurations offered by DSA, and they're so easy to assemble that you're missing one of the big features of the rifle if you don't put your own together. There's TONS of info on the FAL here, all for free, and some from folks VERY knowledgable about partricular aspects of the FAL. And happily, from there you can also hook up with a H&K/G3 forum, wherein they also consider the PTR and Greek and Portugee clones.

Short answer: If you need a scope, get an M1A. If you've got to have a compact *paratroop* stock, go with an HK 91 or clone.

But if you need a reliable, accurate rifle tolerant of a variety of ammunition that you can maintain yourself, go for a FAL, whether you pick up one from DSA or build it up yourself.

[Blood of Tyrants]

For the money, an FN-FAL can’t be beat. It’ll eat anything and keep shooting when other rifles are jammed up. However, the only problem right now is that surplus 7.62 NATO is virtually gone.

Get a Garand while you can still get all the surplus 30-06 you can store.

That reminds me, I need more ammo!

[taxed2death]

“I don’t happen to think much of most of the configurations offered by DSA,...”

I was reading the FALfiles forum the other day...and found a thread where they tested a short barreled (11”) version and supposedly got some amazing results at the range...

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202140

Is this a fluke?

If you were building a LEGAL “shorty”...what components would you likely use?

Thanks in advance.

[oyez]

Right! I don’t want her to be point, press, click at me and especially now, that she has upgraded.

[Sir_Ed]

Couldn’t you get the para version of the FAL, and get the best of both the HK and the FN worlds?

Ed

[BigTom85]

That reminds me, I need more ammo!

We all do!!! I had the Ar-15 at the range last week and I chewed through a bunch of ammo. It looks like I will have to go pick up a bunch more this weekend or next weekend.

My local walmart has really cut back on the ammo and out doors stuff. I will have to spend a few extra $ and go down to Gander Mountain (like a Cabelas) and stock up with ammo from them. I need mostly 12 gauge and 223... Maybe a 500 round brick of .22 also. Ahh hell, and a few boxes of 30-06.... now i know why i leave the credit card home when I go to those outdoor stores! Cash only.

[herewego]

no complaints on my el cheapo L1A1.

[blackbart.223]

Two suggestions. The HK 91 if you can afford to buy one. The trigger sucks until you get used to it. After you do the accuracy and dependability are worth it.

My second choice is the Ruger Mini 14 ranch rifle. I have owned several and find them very dependable and easy on the budget.