Posted on 06/08/2005 12:41:03 PM PDT by rightfielder
Saddam never had WMD? Below please find two articles that refute the idea that there were never any WMD in Iraq. Lately I have read silly things like, “Saddam never had WMD’s.” Let us not be fooled by revisionist history. These two articles speak for themselves...
BOSTON, MA (April 29, 1993) - For the first time ever, scientists have been able to prove the use of chemical weapons through the analysis of environmental residues taken years after such an attack occurred. In a development that could have far-reaching consequences for the enforcement of the chemical weapons treaty, soil samples taken from bomb craters near a Kurdish village in northern Iraq by a team of forensic scientists have been found to contain trace evidence of nerve gas. The samples were collected on June 10, 1992 by a forensic team assembled by the Boston-based Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) and the New York-based Middle East Watch (MEW), a division of Human Rights Watch (HRW). The samples were forwarded to the Chemical & Biological Defence Establishment (CBDE) of Great Britain's Ministry of Defence at Porton Down which analyzed them. Eyewitnesses have said that Iraqi warplanes dropped three clusters each of four bombs on the village of Birjinni on August 25, 1988. Observers recall seeing a plume of black, then yellowish smoke, followed by a not-unpleasant odor similar to fertilizer, and also a smell like rotten garlic. Shortly afterwards, villagers began to have trouble breathing, their eyes watered, their skin blistered, and many vomited--some of whom died. All of these symptoms are consistent with a poison gas attack."These scientific results prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Iraqi government has consistently lied to the world on denying that these attacks occurred," said PHR and HRW. http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html
Posted on Sun, Apr. 06, 2003 Troops, journalists undergo cleanup for nerve gas exposure By TOM LASSETERKnight Ridder Newspapers ALBU MUHAWISH, Iraq - U.S. soldiers evacuated an Iraqi military compound on Sunday after tests by a mobile laboratory confirmed evidence of sarin nerve gas. More than a dozen soldiers of the Army's 101st Airborne Division had been sent earlier for chemical weapons decontamination after they exhibited symptoms of possible exposure to nerve agents.The evacuation of dozens of soldiers Sunday night followed a day of tests for the nerve agent that came back positive, then negative. Additional tests Sunday night by an Army Fox mobile nuclear, biological and chemical detection laboratory confirmed the existence of sarin.Sgt. Todd Ruggles, a biochemical expert attached to the 2nd Brigade of the 101st Airborne said, "I was right" that chemical agents Iraq has denied having were present.In addition to the soldiers sent for decontamination, a Knight Ridder reporter, a CNN cameraman and two Iraqi prisoners of war also were hosed down with water and bleach.U.S. soldiers found the suspect chemicals at two sites: an agricultural warehouse containing 55-gallon chemical drums and a military compound, which soldiers had begun searching on Saturday. The soldiers also found hundreds of gas masks and chemical suits at the military complex, along with large numbers of mortar and artillery rounds.Chemical tests for nerve agents in the warehouse came back positive for so-called G-Series nerve agents, which include sarin and tabun, both of which Iraq has been known to possess. More than a dozen infantry soldiers who guarded the military compound Saturday night came down with symptoms consistent with exposure to very low levels of nerve agent, including vomiting, dizziness and skin blotches.A hand-held scanning device also indicated the soldiers had been exposed to a nerve agent. Two tests at the compound were negative, but further testing indicated sarin was present. http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=1981062252256〈=en-US&FORM=CVRE2
To order a DVD with graphic proof of Saddam's crimes, visit http://www.iraqitruthproject.com/
Correction - That should have read, having the capabilities of producing WMDs is very different from having actual WMDs -
Not its not. Research is the key. Once you learn to weaponize, you can go active in less time than it takes to cook a pot roast.
Try and be more up front and honest and less spinning. Take the lead from our great CIC. GWB has stood up like and man (as has Rumsfeld) and said, "there wasn't the WMD program we expected to find" (plain and simple. That is called being an adult. Being a man).
Ad hominem deflection noted.
Foolishness! - It is not my opinion! - It is the reality of what we have found in Iraq. After conducting over 16 months worth of very complex hex operations looking for these "very WMDs"! - Often at great risk for of American soldiers. - We have found no residuals to an active WMD program.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
The Russians couldn't remove a WMD program if their lives depended on it within their own
Again, you base that opinion on what facts?
You don't have a clue. First off while if one does have the capabilities / facilities to produce WMDs this definitely shortens the lead time on them - It however takes substantially longer to produce them than you suggest. Which shows you don't have a clue what you are trying to talk about.
Ad hominem deflection noted.
No, what is noted is you foolishly act as if you know more than President GWB or SecDef Rumsfled (laughable if it didn't appear that you honestly believe it to be true) - The fact is GWB and Rumsfeld have all said Saddam did not have the WMD program that we thought he did (that we declared he did beforehand) - What is so hard for you to admit about that? - GWB and Rumsfeld are serious men who do not play word games. They mean what they say. (God bless them).
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Ahh, the old "try and prove a negative" trick (usually something only Democrats have to fall back on) - It is silly for you to suggest "you know" there was an active WMD program going on in Iraq. And that our 16 month long hex operations are simple worthless in that they haven't found any residuals of any such program (nor have any witnesses within the Iraqi Gov't come forward. Even with a get out of jail free card and a million dollars to boot).
Again, you base that opinion on what facts?
History! - History of Russian equipment, Past Russian operations and typical Russian BS - Not to mention having served with a few "comrades" in days past -
It is you with absolutely no evidence to show that Russia would have this out-of-this World technology and ability to remove all residuals from an active WMD program on short notice that is the one basing your position on "opinion".
Yes, some of this news is old. What is new is that we have men coming back from Iraq who were there in the initial sweep. It is very interesting to take them out for a coffee, and listen to how we watched on radar as truckloads of stuff were quickly moved into neighboring countries. It is also interesting that some of them have puss filled wounds that won't heal, and to hear that their bloodwork brings back "unknown" results.
It appears that Saddam's program was in disrepair, but chemicals were on standby, rotting away in containers.
History will tell us more; more about all the Soviet and French weapons we found, more about nerve agents and pesticides, more about where the rest of the stuff is.
But for now, we just keep guessing.
The point of my original post was that there are Saddam deniers, as there are Holocaust deniers, already springing up in lib circles.
The two articles I posted may fade from history one day, but I saved them just in case...
The pot roast anology was an exageration, but the point remains - the time it takes to reproduce WMDs after you've done the legwork is insubstantial - weeks not months. Thus it makes no difference whether Saddam had actaully WMDs on hand. You've already admitted he was ready to start-up production as soon as the West left.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Ahh, the old "try and prove a negative" trick
Its not. Read it again slower. The fact that we have not uncovered WMDs doesn't mean that they didn't exist. The logic is not hard.
It is silly for you to suggest "you know" there was an active WMD program going on in Iraq.
Another Strawman. I have said no such thing.
And that our 16 month long hex operations are simple worthless in that they haven't found any residuals of any such program
Never said they were "worthless". Another strawman. If your argument is sound, why resort to this sillyness?
You yourself have claimed that field tests are inconclusive. Which is it? And I doubt a 16 month search for suitcase sized material in the country the size of CA is conclusive.
Again, you base that opinion on what facts?
History! - History of Russian equipment, Past Russian operations and typical Russian BS - Not to mention having served with a few "comrades" in days past
Thats poor linkage and more bad logic. Russian material and operations are hardly as incompetent as you make them out to be - look at the SAM net they built for the Iraqi's in Dessert Shield. No match for new American stealth tech, but hardly incompetent. The Soviets supported terror networks all over the ME with success. Even if your premise is true, it does not discount the fact that they aided Saddam with advisors, weapons, funding, and research.
It is you with absolutely no evidence to show that Russia would have this out-of-this World technology and ability to remove all residuals from an active WMD program on short notice that is the one basing your position on "opinion".
Actually I have. I posted testimony from a defector above - your counter to that has been to stick your fingers in your ears.
Your approach to this subject is hysterically defensive and disingenuous.
Forgive me if I maintain an open mind about it. You saying "trust me, the russians couldn't pull it off" is not enough.
My slow jedi friend (you most certainly are trying the old "prove a negative" trick) - Because using your logic one could take your theory and apply it to anything and anywhere.
For if there are not any WMDs to find.....we will never uncover them (but you will still demand to those who say they aren't there...to find them??? - Which they can't - because they can't find something that doesn't exist....This fact will then allow you to fall back on the "just because we haven't found them...doesn't mean they don't exist" BS - (thus - proving a negative is impossible).
You yourself have claimed that field tests are inconclusive. Which is it? And I doubt a 16 month search for suitcase sized material in the country the size of CA is conclusive.
It is becoming silly with you - I never said our hex operation's were inconclusive!! (I said first indicators of a chemical weapon being found are often inconclusive!) - These are completely different situations. COMPLEATELY!! - Our hex operations are any BUT inconclusive! They become more and more conclusive as time goes by!!
Furthermore it is tremendously ridiculous for you to suggest we are looking for something the size of a "suitcase"! (you really do watch to much drama TV!) - WMD hex operations cover a whole range in which residuals are looked for - These residuals are of the human element, end-product element, computer related element, documentation element, prototype element, waste product element, supply element, shipping elements, warehousing elements, delivery mechanism element, duel product element, production facility element, etc, etc, etc (the list could go on for pages!)
"something the size of a suitcase" - That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time from someone who is trying to come off as if they know what they are talking about! - My young silly Jedi, a WMD search covers a vast larger area then simply looking for the "end-product". That is actually one of the smaller activities within a WMD hex operation.
Wow, you have so much to learn. You are simply terribly ill-informed about a subject you seem to have an interest in.
Actually I have. I posted testimony from a defector above
This is truly laughable. You openly admit Russians are masters of propaganda...and then act as if the word of a former KGB agent isn't full of propaganda! - But furthermore, I have not put my fingers in my ears (I have actually been in Iraq! for starters!) - But additionally I have put up against your silly KGB source the fact that we have conducted over 16 months of complex hex operations and found no active WMD program. I have put up the fact that President GWB and SecDef Rumsfeld have both said Saddam DID NOT have the active WMD program we thought he did!
Why do you keep insisting that you know more than President GWB and Rumsfeld (are they lying when they say Saddam did not have the WMD program we thought he did? - Do you really believe they are lying?)
Additionally to show how little you know of actual war - Saddam's SAM defense network imploded on itself during the first Gulf War and performed amazingly awful! (all our war games beforehand had assumed many more coalition aircraft going down - We were shocked at how poorly the Russian SAMs worked -
Forgive me if I maintain an open mind about it.
Some words of advice that Bill Bennett gives often. "It is fine to have an open mind....just don't keep it so open that all your brains fall out!!" (and you are getting close to that - because your mind is only open based on an agenda you have - it is not open to the fact of reality which can assure anyone who is willing to be intellectually honest that no active WMD program could be dismantled on short notice while ensuring all residuals of such WMD program were removed. It is simply silly to suggest this.
Again, why do you think you know more than soldiers in the field....more than President GWB and more than SecDef Rumsfeld?? - All have said Saddam did NOT have the WMD program we expected he had? (yet you insist that he could have still).
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