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Why I Am Now Behind Arnold
me

Posted on 08/12/2003 9:52:14 AM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand

I have slowly come to the conclusion that California needs Arnold. Republicans need Arnold, and above all, California Republicans need Arnold.

I had been leaning towards McClintock, and I must admit, I made that decision before Arnold threw his hat into the ring. I welcomed the move when he did, but I still had reservations. I had gotten pretty excited over McClintock's vision, particularly his desire to void the Davis energy contracts and his general desire to stick it to the Democrats. I was also justifiably concerned at first about Arnold's talk of handing the treasury over to "the children".

But one has to be able to discern politics from policy. Everyone who wants to win elective office has to pay lipservice to "the children". It is the national passtime of politicians. I think when Arnold says "the children should have the first call of state Treasury" it is followed by an unspoken qualifier of "before illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, and special interests." He is simply putting forth his priorities, and they lay in stark contrast to Gray Davis and Cruz Bustamante's. He is quite savvy, so he isn't going to come out and say it in those words. He knows highlighting what is his priorities gets much better press than highlighting what isn't. He wants to reassure the soccer moms who have been frightened by Davis' threats of cutting funding to schools that he will be looking elsewhere to cut.

Arnold is very mindful of the hurdles he faces by running as a Republican in such a liberal state, so he will take extra measures to make traditional Democratic voters feel comfortable voting for him. It is what he has to do right now if he wants to win, and it seems to be working brilliantly.

Some conservatives will argue against Schwarzenegger because he opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton. But Arnold understood the articles of impeachment that were brought were a pretty weak justification. Right or wrong, they were too easily construed as a right-wing lynching. He recognized it as too divisive and knew it could only further poison the political atmosphere and ultimately damage the Republican party.

Perhaps if Ken Starr had the convictions to pursue the serious matters of Whitewater, Chinagate, Filegate, or the murder of Vincent Foster, then Arnold would have seen it differently, just as the rest of America would have. But clearly Starr had no will to do so. It's hard to understand why, but perhaps he didn't want to expose that level of corruption in the highest office out of the long-term best interest of the American political system. Exposing Clinton's ties to the Dixieland mafia and Red China could have brought the entire government to its knees. It would have been a short-term victory for Republicans, but just as Nixon understood when he covered for Kennedy and Johnson over the Pentagon Papers, the long-term damage to the nation as a whole would have been far too great. Anyways, had Clinton actually been removed from office as a lame duck on those flimsy charges, we would have a President Gore in office right now. Arnold knew, just as everyone else did, that this was not going to happen considering it required a two-thirds majority in the Senate. Surely he understood that impeachment was a lose-lose proposition for Republicans so it was a mistake to go down that road. It was important for him to remain above it all for the sake of his own political future.

Some will argue that what we need right now is someone sort of financial wizard to fix the budget, and Arnold just doesn't qualify. But the truth is we really only need someone who can admit that Gray Davis has made some huge mistakes. Anyone but Gray Davis will do.

I hate to admit it, but the whole budget crisis is being about as overplayed for political reasons as the federal deficit in the '90s was (and is again). When it comes down to brass tacks, I think even the Democrats will bite the bullet and fix it. Yes, I know you're cringing, I am too, but it's the truth. The issue here isn't that the Democrats are incapable or even unwilling to fixing the budget. It's merely about how they want to fix it: the usual liberal approach of skyrocketing taxes. Either way, California isn't going to drop into the ocean or become a third world nation.

As far as Arnold not being a "social conservative", neither am I, and neither is California. A social conservative is not going to win a statewide election here for a long time to come. I fit in more along the lines of a fiscal conservative, just as Arnold is, and a "Constitutional conservative" with libertarian tendencies. Piety is not a prerequisite for my support, and too much of it may even lose it. I don't begrudge anyone their religious beliefs, but I do belive strongly in Jefferson's "wall of seperation between church and state". I also believe in strict interpritation of the First Ammendment, and that freedom of religion also entails freedom from religion. I realize those of you in the religious-right do not agree because this doesn't reinforce your personal religious beliefs, but not everything should be about our own personal whims and narrow agendas. Defending our own freedom as individuals must always be a higher objective. Otherwise it may be you they come for next. The Constitution protects everyone, or it protects no one. I think there are a lot of people on both extremes who forget that sometimes.

Even though some will say for these various reasons that Schwarzenegger is not the ideal conservative candidate, it is important for everyone to be pragmatic and pick their battles wisely. Right now we should be looking at long-term goals. An expedient victory in the recall of a conservative candidate by a 20 percent plurality is going to be counterproductive in the long-term. What are you going to do when Bill Simon is elected and the drive to recall him begins October 8th and qualifies three weeks later?

Electing Arnold, who can come to office with a true mandate and bring California together, will pay off big in the perception wars. Conservatives will never get their agenda anywhere in California as long as it is taboo to even vote for Republicans here. The longer Democrats have a complete lock on the state, the further left we will drift. Even if Arnold can't change the course right away, he can at least slow the momentum.

Personally, my goal is the destruction of the Democratic party and the liberal agenda far more than it is advancing any conservative single-issue. I have far more hate for left-wing Democrats than I have love for right-wing Republicans. I would be happy simply with a return to sanity at this point.

You can't walk a mile until you take the first step. For right now we all need to be concentrating on the jouney one step at a time or we will never reach the final destination. You have to at least open the door, which is now closed and locked here. It seems like a lot of right-wingers around here would rather rant and rave and pound on the door in futility than grab it by the handle.

I think I've finally figured that one out. For the death-before-electibility crowd, it's not about advancing their cause on earth, it's about earning a place in heaven.

As for the rest of us, we have to make a decision: do we want a small victory, or a huge defeat?


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 1eternalvignotincali; california; davis; election; governor; guessmyotherid; imatroll; mcclintock; recall; schwarzenegger; schwarzenutter
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To: nyconse
"A Republican governor in California would help elect more Republicans to the House and Senate (some will be pro-life)..."

Excellent point.
81 posted on 08/12/2003 11:13:00 AM PDT by MaryFromMichigan (God made us Freepers, Prozac made us friends.)
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To: Political Junkie Too
From the look of the map one might think that California only has a handful of Deocratic strongholds...

except for the fact that no one lives in the red areas.
82 posted on 08/12/2003 11:14:27 AM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
"Don't get me wrong about the impeachment thing. As a private citizen I was and still am thrilled that
Clinton will forever be tainted by impeachment.

But it was a bad political move by the Republicans. It was seen as vindictive and partisan by most
Americans, "

Actually...and to be perfectly honest...a Republican relieving himself in a public bathroom is seen as "vindictive and partisan".

However, you're wrong about it being seen that way by "most Americans", that's how it's portrayed in an obviously liberal dominated media.

You probably aren't a conservative. We don't consider punishment for crimes from the point of view of how an uninvolved third party might perceive it as a valid viewpoint.
83 posted on 08/12/2003 11:15:30 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Quix
AND " IF he 'merely' " helps gets rid of Davis, so we don't have to try to get rid of him later when he is stronger...
84 posted on 08/12/2003 11:16:12 AM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Well, first of all, do you live in California, so are you actually going to pay the taxes when Schwarzenegger raises them? Because I live in California and I feel like I pay enough taxes already. Plus, are your property taxes going to skyrocket when he axes Prop 13?

As far as Arnold not being a "social conservative"

Isn't it okay that the Republican not be the left o0f the population on social issue? Schwarzenegger is to the left of Californians. Californians soundly rejected gay marriage recently. Schwarzenegger is for gay marriage, gay adoption, etc. Californians clearly aren't. Schwarzenegger is for gun control. And once guns are banned in this state, there is probably no going back.

fiscal conservative, just as Arnold is</I?

Arnold is not a fiscal conservative, nor even a fiscal moderate. Would ANY fiscal conservative ever say the following:

When businesses come back, revenue comes back. When revenue comes back, we can afford all kinds of different programs that are very important." We want to make sure that the mothers have affordable day care. We want to make sure that the older folks have their care that they need. Everything has to be provided for the people. We have such a great state. There's no reason why we are in the state we are in today."

Hello? Everything has to be provided for the people is the antithesis of fiscal conservatism.

How can this be good for the Republican Party, when you consider Schwarzenegger is being advised by Richard Riordan? Riordan, when campaigning last year, could not disguise his contepmt for Republicans. And Riordan never endorses other Republicans, so there is a good chance Schwarzenegger will only endorse Democrats in other elected offices. [Riordan endorsed Maxine Waters, if that's an indication] Riordan is known for criticizing Democrats for not raising taxes enough.

The Republican Party in California has a major problem: they don't have any respect or concern for their own voters. As long as they are so opposed to Republican voters in the state, the problem will remain.

The bottom line is Schwarzenegger is trying to replace Davis, but his policy positions are virtually identical to Davis'. Can you name one issue that Schwarzenegger disagrees with davis on? [The only issue I can find is the car tax: even Bustamente disagrees with Davis on that] If anything, Schwarzenegger seems more prone to raise taxes than Davis.

85 posted on 08/12/2003 11:16:26 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nyconse
Another "voting is a reflex" post.

You guys really do a disservice to California. If Californians are *really* that STUPID not even a conservative can help them.
86 posted on 08/12/2003 11:16:43 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Maps pre-dating the 2000 election always (correctly) had the Rat-dominated areas (either states or counties) represented in commie red and the GOP in blue. But since then, unfortunately, I've only seen the opposite.
87 posted on 08/12/2003 11:18:31 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
The Electoral College was created to prevent some few intellectually diseased areas from controlling the nation.

State-wide this is exactly what has happened as is quite evident from the map.

I wish you were able to re-consider your position.
88 posted on 08/12/2003 11:18:35 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: AppyPappy
Yes but what will you win? A RINO governor who will get the blame for every single problem that occurs in California

Absolutely wrong. Even the leftist screw worms know who's at fault here. That will never fly.

89 posted on 08/12/2003 11:21:44 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (1)
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To: Political Junkie Too
Landmass does not vote.

People do.

Go the California state website, and look at the percentage of registered voters in California by political affiliations.

90 posted on 08/12/2003 11:24:42 AM PDT by george wythe
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Given that the total population of California is 35 million, there are plenty of people in the red zones. Also, that is where the recall started. Just like in the Bush Country map, the Democrats are in the cities (San Diego, LA, San Francisco), and the Republicans are everywhere else.

-PJ

91 posted on 08/12/2003 11:25:17 AM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's not safe yet to vote Democrat.)
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To: Maelstrom
I see; the big population areas (liberal) cancel out the less populated (Republican) areas. But the thing is; doesn't this map sort of prove a conservative can't get elected:you got get some votes from "blue" areas. It seems to enforce the idea that only a liberal Republican can get elected. The key point here is this-getting a Republican elected is what is important.
92 posted on 08/12/2003 11:28:48 AM PDT by nyconse
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To: spokeshave
I can not even imagine she who should not be named because of the shock value (moderater would have to remove such a post) as President. If God is merciful....this will never never happen.
93 posted on 08/12/2003 11:31:47 AM PDT by nyconse
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand; Sabertooth
Only because your mother made the right "choice."
94 posted on 08/12/2003 11:33:30 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs and CINOs like rented mules!)
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To: Maelstrom
Not really-Bloomberg is a Democrat who only changed his party so he could run in the Republican primary-less crowded field.
95 posted on 08/12/2003 11:35:40 AM PDT by nyconse
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To: Maelstrom
Impeachment is not "punishment for crimes".
It is removal from office. High crimes and misdemeanors can lead to impeachment, but we all know there have been far worse crimes committed by Presidents than the particular one Clinton was impeached for.

I just think that it lowered the bar and set a bad precident that may come back to haunt Republicans one day.

But regardless, like I said, I personally was and am in favor of the impeachment. Unlike most people though, I try to seperate my personal feelings on matters from what is ultimately best. Perhaps if more people could do that, then we wouldn't even have to have this debate about Arnold.

Now I don't understand why you think I'm probably not a conservative.
I'm not even sure what it means to be one. Some people's idea of a "conservative" is my idea of a religious right-wing ideologue.

I almost always agree with Rush Limbaugh, if that gives you an idea. He doesn't preach about abortion for hours on end, and while he is pro-life, that isn't his core issue. Defeating Democrats is. Where I have differed from him that I can even recall is on his take the 9th Circuit Court ruling on the Pledge (but I seem to differ from EVERYONE willing to opine on that).

So where does that leave me?

Now I would submit to you that taking my pragmatic approach will get Conservatives much further over the next 10 to 20 years than the self-ordained "true conservatives" on this forum with their all-or-nothing approach.

So who is really the "true conservative"?
The one who makes some advancement, or the one who loses ground?
96 posted on 08/12/2003 11:40:25 AM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: Political Junkie Too; sittnick; ninenot
I hope if Arnold wins that there will be a cure for the common cold and an end to cancer, and perpetual motion machines and that the lion will lie down with the lamb and that airheads will disappear and that that secret carburetor that gets 10,000 miles to the gallon in a Cadillac will be released for the good of man by the oil companies and that RINOs will become sensible and that shrimps will whistle and pigs fly and that Maria's Uncle Ted will go on the wagon. If any of those things happen, it will not be the fault of Schwarzenkennedy.
97 posted on 08/12/2003 11:46:00 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs and CINOs like rented mules!)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; Sabertooth
I'll vouch for that. Hear, Hear!
98 posted on 08/12/2003 11:50:09 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs and CINOs like rented mules!)
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To: nickcarraway
Has Schwarzenkennedy actually taken a position AGAINST the car tax?
99 posted on 08/12/2003 11:55:12 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs and CINOs like rented mules!)
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To: BlackElk
One article I read in the San Jose Mercury News claimed he would reverse it. But, it wasn't in his own words, so who knows.
100 posted on 08/12/2003 11:58:26 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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