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Why I Am Now Behind Arnold
me

Posted on 08/12/2003 9:52:14 AM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand

I have slowly come to the conclusion that California needs Arnold. Republicans need Arnold, and above all, California Republicans need Arnold.

I had been leaning towards McClintock, and I must admit, I made that decision before Arnold threw his hat into the ring. I welcomed the move when he did, but I still had reservations. I had gotten pretty excited over McClintock's vision, particularly his desire to void the Davis energy contracts and his general desire to stick it to the Democrats. I was also justifiably concerned at first about Arnold's talk of handing the treasury over to "the children".

But one has to be able to discern politics from policy. Everyone who wants to win elective office has to pay lipservice to "the children". It is the national passtime of politicians. I think when Arnold says "the children should have the first call of state Treasury" it is followed by an unspoken qualifier of "before illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, and special interests." He is simply putting forth his priorities, and they lay in stark contrast to Gray Davis and Cruz Bustamante's. He is quite savvy, so he isn't going to come out and say it in those words. He knows highlighting what is his priorities gets much better press than highlighting what isn't. He wants to reassure the soccer moms who have been frightened by Davis' threats of cutting funding to schools that he will be looking elsewhere to cut.

Arnold is very mindful of the hurdles he faces by running as a Republican in such a liberal state, so he will take extra measures to make traditional Democratic voters feel comfortable voting for him. It is what he has to do right now if he wants to win, and it seems to be working brilliantly.

Some conservatives will argue against Schwarzenegger because he opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton. But Arnold understood the articles of impeachment that were brought were a pretty weak justification. Right or wrong, they were too easily construed as a right-wing lynching. He recognized it as too divisive and knew it could only further poison the political atmosphere and ultimately damage the Republican party.

Perhaps if Ken Starr had the convictions to pursue the serious matters of Whitewater, Chinagate, Filegate, or the murder of Vincent Foster, then Arnold would have seen it differently, just as the rest of America would have. But clearly Starr had no will to do so. It's hard to understand why, but perhaps he didn't want to expose that level of corruption in the highest office out of the long-term best interest of the American political system. Exposing Clinton's ties to the Dixieland mafia and Red China could have brought the entire government to its knees. It would have been a short-term victory for Republicans, but just as Nixon understood when he covered for Kennedy and Johnson over the Pentagon Papers, the long-term damage to the nation as a whole would have been far too great. Anyways, had Clinton actually been removed from office as a lame duck on those flimsy charges, we would have a President Gore in office right now. Arnold knew, just as everyone else did, that this was not going to happen considering it required a two-thirds majority in the Senate. Surely he understood that impeachment was a lose-lose proposition for Republicans so it was a mistake to go down that road. It was important for him to remain above it all for the sake of his own political future.

Some will argue that what we need right now is someone sort of financial wizard to fix the budget, and Arnold just doesn't qualify. But the truth is we really only need someone who can admit that Gray Davis has made some huge mistakes. Anyone but Gray Davis will do.

I hate to admit it, but the whole budget crisis is being about as overplayed for political reasons as the federal deficit in the '90s was (and is again). When it comes down to brass tacks, I think even the Democrats will bite the bullet and fix it. Yes, I know you're cringing, I am too, but it's the truth. The issue here isn't that the Democrats are incapable or even unwilling to fixing the budget. It's merely about how they want to fix it: the usual liberal approach of skyrocketing taxes. Either way, California isn't going to drop into the ocean or become a third world nation.

As far as Arnold not being a "social conservative", neither am I, and neither is California. A social conservative is not going to win a statewide election here for a long time to come. I fit in more along the lines of a fiscal conservative, just as Arnold is, and a "Constitutional conservative" with libertarian tendencies. Piety is not a prerequisite for my support, and too much of it may even lose it. I don't begrudge anyone their religious beliefs, but I do belive strongly in Jefferson's "wall of seperation between church and state". I also believe in strict interpritation of the First Ammendment, and that freedom of religion also entails freedom from religion. I realize those of you in the religious-right do not agree because this doesn't reinforce your personal religious beliefs, but not everything should be about our own personal whims and narrow agendas. Defending our own freedom as individuals must always be a higher objective. Otherwise it may be you they come for next. The Constitution protects everyone, or it protects no one. I think there are a lot of people on both extremes who forget that sometimes.

Even though some will say for these various reasons that Schwarzenegger is not the ideal conservative candidate, it is important for everyone to be pragmatic and pick their battles wisely. Right now we should be looking at long-term goals. An expedient victory in the recall of a conservative candidate by a 20 percent plurality is going to be counterproductive in the long-term. What are you going to do when Bill Simon is elected and the drive to recall him begins October 8th and qualifies three weeks later?

Electing Arnold, who can come to office with a true mandate and bring California together, will pay off big in the perception wars. Conservatives will never get their agenda anywhere in California as long as it is taboo to even vote for Republicans here. The longer Democrats have a complete lock on the state, the further left we will drift. Even if Arnold can't change the course right away, he can at least slow the momentum.

Personally, my goal is the destruction of the Democratic party and the liberal agenda far more than it is advancing any conservative single-issue. I have far more hate for left-wing Democrats than I have love for right-wing Republicans. I would be happy simply with a return to sanity at this point.

You can't walk a mile until you take the first step. For right now we all need to be concentrating on the jouney one step at a time or we will never reach the final destination. You have to at least open the door, which is now closed and locked here. It seems like a lot of right-wingers around here would rather rant and rave and pound on the door in futility than grab it by the handle.

I think I've finally figured that one out. For the death-before-electibility crowd, it's not about advancing their cause on earth, it's about earning a place in heaven.

As for the rest of us, we have to make a decision: do we want a small victory, or a huge defeat?


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 1eternalvignotincali; california; davis; election; governor; guessmyotherid; imatroll; mcclintock; recall; schwarzenegger; schwarzenutter
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To: Ann Archy
NO conservative can or will get elected....the Dems will eat them alive.....but they won't butt heads too hard with Arnold.

That attitude is so French.

481 posted on 08/12/2003 9:48:59 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: Torie
Seriously, you guys are so well informed. How could I not know this. I knew abortion was legal in CA and NY-but the rest-I did not know about.
482 posted on 08/12/2003 9:49:04 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: nyconse
Someone in Georgia is telling a Californian this? You win for most ridiculous post of the night.
483 posted on 08/12/2003 9:51:46 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: EternalVigilance
What part of perversion of justice don't you understand?

The Constitution clearly says that NO PERSON can be deprived of their life or their liberty without due process.

How can you believe that a baby in the womb is not a person?

The justice's reasoning abilities are as faulty as the reasoning powers of the Schwarzenegger supporters here.

You have an amazing ability to consistently miss the point.
It doesn't matter whether or not it is bad law, only that it is settled law.

The reasoning of anyone who would vote against a decent candidate ensuring the election of a horrible candidate is what is faulty.
You appear to be fixated on this one issue. There are a lot of other issues out there.

And what is so insipid about it is that it is totally moot.
It is like saying you can't support Arnold because he likes waffles for breakfast and you prefer pancakes.

484 posted on 08/12/2003 9:51:56 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: Torie
Completely confusing! Listen, I would love to see a Reagan conservative become governor of California-but I can't believe it will happen based on the last election. Simon couldn't beat a hated governor and Arnold seems like a candidate who can win...I don't live in California so I won't be voting anyway. Therefore, McClintock supporters, I will not be voting against your guy-no worries.
485 posted on 08/12/2003 9:52:36 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Very good Doc-even if I didn't agree with you, I would be impressed.
486 posted on 08/12/2003 9:53:42 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
I don't remember what I said in particular. All my posts basically make the same points. Abortion is not an issue in the recall election. A conservative can not get elected in California. I would rather have a Republican (rino or not) than any Democrat. I would rather eat dirt than see any Dems elected. There that's it!
487 posted on 08/12/2003 9:56:11 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: Torie
I lived in California in 1967 and yes liberal hospitals/doctors "took advantage" of the law. I am aware of several young women who "rumor had it" did just that...Of course people with money had the advantage of contacts and influence where those of less means did not...
488 posted on 08/12/2003 9:56:14 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
It doesn't matter whether or not it is bad law, only that it is settled law.

Let me walk you through this slowly.

It is 'settled law' I (at least so you claim) only because people are dumb or immoral enough to give political support to politicians similiar to Arnold Schwarzenegger.

You do know that politicians choose judges, right?

By the way, if it is so 'settled', why are the Democrats beside themselves over judicial appointments?

489 posted on 08/12/2003 9:58:25 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: rolling_stone
I am very surprised that Reagan signed this bill, but I shouldn't be. Reagan was the most compassionate president we ever had. The lip biter was an amateur.
490 posted on 08/12/2003 9:58:52 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: EternalVigilance
Is it true that when an abortion is performed, a little child dies, or not?

Again, abortion seems to be the only issue you care about in defining a Republican. Even the GOP platform never defines that a fertilized egg becomes a child at conception. The GOP platform also states the following, "We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion" (from http://www.rnc.org/GOPInfo/Platform/2000platform4.htm).

The Republican Party states it will NOT force criminal penalties on a woman who has an abortion. Do you agree with this platform?

491 posted on 08/12/2003 9:59:45 PM PDT by Tamzee (I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight...... Rita Rudner)
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To: EternalVigilance
That attitude is so French.

Yes abortion is legal in France too.... http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/08/04/p6s1.htm

492 posted on 08/12/2003 9:59:47 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Tamsey
The Republican Party states it will NOT force criminal penalties on a woman who has an abortion. Do you agree with this platform?

I helped create it.

But believe me, the vast majority of women who obtain abortions punish themselves quite sufficiently for the rest of their lives.

493 posted on 08/12/2003 10:02:05 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: Cicero
I don't see this as a national GOP party problem. Arnold (notice how everyone uses "Arnold" because we can't or get tired of typing "Schwarzenegger"? lol) is concentrating and will concentrate on California.

This really doesn't effect the national party and the national issues unless Arnold wants to make comments on other issues.
494 posted on 08/12/2003 10:03:41 PM PDT by Fledermaus
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Did you see that the ACLU is trying to get the election postponed until March-they say the ballots (chads, they have chads!) are unfair to poor people. could you imagine a recount involving 150 candidates? New ballots will be ready in March. The ACLU is so partisan. I used to be a card carrying member of the ACLU when I was a Dem. I believed in free speech, but I resigned and burned my card more than 10 years ago. The Dems act all hysterical and panicked. I really enjoy watching them.
495 posted on 08/12/2003 10:05:56 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: Tamsey
Again, abortion seems to be the only issue you care about in defining a Republican.

Okay. Let's talk about the unalienable right to keep and bear arms. The right to protect your family, your property, your community and yourself.

That right has been more and more undermined for the last generation. It has gotten so bad that it is even illegal where I live for me to own or possess a weapon, even in my own home. Schwarzenegger supports further erosion. How can conservatives support such a politician? How can you?

496 posted on 08/12/2003 10:06:09 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
If everyone who was for McClintock actually voted for the man he would win! This "I like him but he can't win" is completely self defeating. He can win if people vote for the best candidate for the job.

No, he can't.
How many people on this forum are registered California voters?
How many conservatives are there in all of California's 15 million voters?
Arnold has 51% support statewide to Cruz Bustamante's 17% at last count. That leaves a maximum of 32% for the remaining 193 candidates to split between themselves. It is mathmatically impossible for McClintock to over-take Arnold, and highly improbable that he could even take second place even if Simon drops out.

497 posted on 08/12/2003 10:06:10 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: nyconse
I still believe in free speech-just not the ACLU
498 posted on 08/12/2003 10:06:46 PM PDT by nyconse
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To: nyconse
{I would rather have a Republican (rino or not) than any Democrat}

How do you feel about Sonny Perdue? He shocked the nation when he defeated Roy Barnes. However, since assuming the Governorship, he pushed for tax hikes and went back on his promise to hold a referendum on the GA state flag. Alot of GA Freepers are very angry at him. Many people on this Forum think Sonny Perdue will drag the GA GOP down in 2006.
499 posted on 08/12/2003 10:08:47 PM PDT by Kuksool (There are no guarantees in the Gray Recall)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
I hear you. I wish he could win too. I still don't think enough will vote for him and we will be stuck with a dim.
500 posted on 08/12/2003 10:11:31 PM PDT by 2rightsleftcoast
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