DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

I've updated my blog to include the e-mail from Janice Okubo confirming that they assign birth certificate numbers in the state registrar's office and the day they do that is the "Date filed by state registrar".

The pertinent portion from Okubo's e-mail:

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

MY SUMMARY: As you can see, Okubo said that the “Date filed by the State Registrar” is the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office).

There are no pre-numbered certificates. A certificate given a certificate number on Aug 8th (Obama’s Factcheck COLB) would not be given a later number than a certificate given a number on Aug 11th (the Nordyke certificates).

There is no way that both the date filed and the certificate number can be correct on the Factcheck COLB. The COLB is thus proven to be a forgery.

[BuckeyeTexan]

I’m going to take a look around to see if I can find a picture of one of those stamps the Hawaii DoH issued to the hospitals for the certificate numbers. Maybe someone out there has one. Doubtful, but worth looking.

Your mentioning that the DoH issued stamps to the hospitals before it got too expensive reminded me about a stamp that the state of Texas gave the dealership for either title work or tax work or something. I don’t remember what exactly it was, it’s been too long, but they did issue a stamp that had a series of rotating values on it that would eventually run out and require a new one to be issued.

The stamp with a pre-assigned block of numbers where each individual number probably rotated to some maxiumum value is a logical scenario. What’s funny to me is that birthers accuse Hawaii DoH of being so corrupt but then they take one Okubo statement as the absolute gospel in order to futher their conspiracy. They’ve already trashed Okubo up one side of the wall and down the other. I don’t understand it.

And what bothers me most is that Danae jumped in on this one. She’s a bright lady and usually doesn’t fall for this crap. She’s the one who exposed Polarik’s less than stellar work and got creamed for it by this same group of freepers. She has a mind of her own.

[Danae]

Great. Too bad what she wrote is shown to be wrong just by looking at the actual documents. But I'll tell you. When you want to learn how to snake a drain, you ask a plumber, not the PR Person for an architect.

Prove that.

http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/confirmation-that-certificate-number-given-by-state-registrar%E2%80%99s-office/

RE: UIPA Request – DoH Administrave Rules, Regulations, or Procedures‏
From: Okubo, Janice S. (janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov)
Sent: Wed 2/03/10 11:12 AM
To:


Aloha,
In going back through my e-mails, I found this one and was unsure if a response had been provided. The public health regulations (or administrative rules) regarding vital records are posted at http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html There has been no repeal of these rules.

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

Historically, most often the “date accepted” and the “date filed” is the same date as the majority of births occur on O’ahu (the island with the largest population in our state). In the past, when births were recorded on paper they may have been accepted at a health office on an island other than O’ahu, such as Kaua’i. The paper record would then need to be sent to O’ahu to have a file number placed on it, and the filed date would then be sometime later (as you know, the state of Hawai’i is comprised of multiple islands with miles of water in between). The electronic age has changed this process significantly, and it was determined some time ago that one date would suffice.

Janice Okubo
Hawaii State Department of Health


Eggie, your analogy is not only false, your friend doesn't even KNOW that the person he talked to was at all knowledgeable about anything. He admitted he wasn't in the department in 1961, and I can tell you this, in the 1970's things WERE done differently in Hawaii. In 1961 Hawaii had been a state for what 3 years....? and you think that their processes would not have evolved over a period of a decade? Decade and a half(?), when this "person" gained his first hand information?

This person doesn't know any more about how things were done in Hawaii in 1961 than you do.

Because Okubo IS responsible for the information AND getting that information right, she has about a thousand percent more credibility than either you or your friend. She is HELD ACCOUNTABLE for what she says.

So, Unless you are willing to identify yourself publicly in order to establish your credibility. Otherwise you don't really have any.

[BuckeyeTexan]

Checking in? Does that mean you’re leaving? You gotta stay. We’re having so much fun.

[Red Steel]

Oh just damn Iggles. Danae has just got blown you out of the water. It’s in direct contradiction of your post. Another West Point honor violation by you Iggs.

[bgill]

Looks logical to me.

[Red Steel]

Which forums does the guy in the cubicle next to you post to? What time is it in New Delhi right now anyway? Don't worry buddy we will still be here when you get back tomorrow.

Iggs post from mommy's basement?

[BP2]

Birthers jump from one assumption to another and then another until they find the answer they want and, presto, they generate their own reality.

Et tu, Brown-eye?

After-Birthers justify and spin on a man who has shown he's nothing but a sociopathic liar. Not ONE TROLL HERE has given a logical reason to TRUST Obama. They can't, because Obama's shown he lies to the Liberals, too!

Obama is Slick Willie on steroids! Things were SO MUCH simpler when we only had to worry about a President getting BJs from an intern and exposing themselves to extortion. Yeah ... those were the good 'ol days.

Truths can be in the eye of the beholder, but some leaps of faith and logic are easier to make than others. In Obama's case, it's FAR more logical to assume he's lied about the "facts" surrounding his birth VERSUS those "facts" being the only TRUTH that encompasses his life and sorted past.

Yes, Obama is a liar. He lies about everything. He’s probably lying about his birth in some way or another. The problem is, there isn’t enough information out there to figure out what he’s lying about.

Well then by all means, he needs to clear the air once and for all, right?

That way we can all breath easier knowing we simply have a LYING, ineffective Socialist in the White House — versus a LYING, Constitutionally-illegitimate Socialist in the White House.

[naturalborn]

307 posts for something that doesn’t matter, huh?

[Danae]

Thanks Buck, but I have made my mistakes too, and I owned up to em too. But that being said, I still think O’bummer was born in Hawaii..... What I think he is hiding is his adoption records because it would have recorded a change of name. He would have needed that amended file to get his documents issued in Indonesia in order to go to school there. I believe he got a foreign passport based on that, and in doing so gave evidence of voluntarily giving up US Citizenship. It has been posted at Berg’s site, that on a FOIA request, the State Department has no records of Obama applying for a US Passport. He GOT a special diplomatic one when he became a Senator. HOW DID HE TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN WITH OUT A PASSPORT? How did college student Barack Obama get into and STAY in Pakistan with out ID?? To believe he somehow did is just beyond anything I can believe. He had ID, questions is, of which Nation? Indonesia? Britain?

I also believe that he went back to Oahu in 06 to amend those documents just before beginning to run for POTUS, in order to change his name back officially, and make sure that his Nationality was that of the USA, an adoption can be invalidated and records changed if the person requesting them has reason to do so. Reversing an Adoption would qualify. Maybe he dropped a threat or two, or placed a bribe, who knows, after all we are talking about Hawaii and Chicago, both places where that sort of thing is not uncommon.

The fact that I am now thinking that the document on FactCheck is a forgery is this, 1) Obama could then point to a document that looked official, and 2)he could trap the State of Hawaii into NOT stating anything about it because he will not give his permission to allow them to do so, a permission they NEED because his REAL COLB had not been released.

If that COLB were real, by Hawaiian law, state Statute, they could confirm that it is because teh information was released by the person it pertains to. They have not thus far said a word about it. They could say that the information matches whats on record... they haven’t. They could confirm the Certification number... nope not done that. Instead they say that they are bound by the law and can’t discuss it.

Ok so following that logic, they can’t discuss it because the information in Obama’s real file has in no way been made public, because the FactCheck Document is a forgery.

So he gets his cake and gets to eat it too. Hawaii knows that it was a forgery, but can’t say so with out releasing his real information which he won’t let them do. So he gets to look legit, protects his real records, and gets the added bonus of getting to mock birthers.

A true masterpiece of political chess.

[fireman15]

“I have to get in thirty or so more posts so I can hit the imaginary quota of 50 you’ve given me.”

Oh EnderWiggins you haven’t been keeping track of your work. Here is a link to the results of your trolling excuse me toiling.

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/by:enderwiggins/index?tab=comments;brevity=full;options=no-change

Sung to the tune Sixteen Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford.

http://popup.lala.com/popup/792915048699969246

I am still working on it but here is a beginning maybe some other freepers can add a few verses and email them to me.

Some people say a troll is stuffed full of crud
I’m living in my mom’s basement and my life is a dud
Typing and talking on my I-phone
A post thats a-weak and then back to my bong

You write fifty posts and what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Oh Mama don’t you call me cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to Obama my bro

I was born one morning when the modem was down
I picked up my I-phone and took the bus into town
I typed out sixteen pages of lefty prime slime
The troll boss said “Well look at the time

You write fifty posts and what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Oh Mama don’t you call me cause I can’t go
I owe my soul to Obama my bro

[parsifal]

Sorry, I have been away. Been on a usury thread. But if your scenario is correct, how do you explain the birth announcements that gave his name as BHO? Remember, those were contemporaneous 1961 records.

parsy,who may have missed something

[parsifal]

If you wrote that, you’re pretty good. The Sanity Squad needs to save you!

parsy, who says a mind is a terrible thing to waste

[bgill]

Who would be looking at their dead relative’s birth certificate and notice that it has Obama’s alleged number?

Exactly. That's what I said months ago and my first thought with the lines on the newspaper announcement (that or a missing ad). Out of the approx. 147 births (thanks to patlin and now someone needs to go back to the papers for the week to check) recorded each day, there's bound to be a baby who didn't make it. Even easier to steal if both mother and baby died. Fifty years later, it's likely the dad could be deceased today. Not very likely anyone would even have the records much less put two and two together. No one has come up with an original copy of the newspapers and there were thousands more of those compared to one bc.

[patlin]

Historically, most often the “date accepted” and the “date filed” is the same date as the majority of births occur on O’ahu (the island with the largest population in our state).

I would agree and so would the 1961 birth census. Of the 35,232 births that year, 29,628 were in in the county of Honolulu and of them 16,536 were in the city of Honolulu proper. Of the over 35,000 reported for the state, 184 did not take place in any medical facility and are reported as having no attending physician or midwife. Of those 184 for the county of Honolulu, 28 of those unattended & not born in any medical facility were recorded for the city of Honolulu proper.

In the past, when births were recorded on paper they may have been accepted at a health office on an island other than O’ahu, such as Kaua’i.

The paper record would then need to be sent to O’ahu to have a file number placed on it, and the filed date would then be sometime later (as you know, the state of Hawai’i is comprised of multiple islands with miles of water in between).

Okubo replied that the numbers are issued at the state level, not the county level therefore since ‘0’s was accepted/filed on the 8th & the Nordyke’s were not accepted/filed until the 11th, Okubo is basically saying that ‘0’s would have been given a number by the state 3 days earlier. If we were to follow BuckT’s theory, the date on ‘0’s would be the 11th, the same as the Nordyke’s certs.

The electronic age has changed this process significantly, and it was determined some time ago that one date would suffice.

‘0’ was not born in the new electronic age, but he was born the same week as the Nordyke and since the state office is in the same city, it would be reasonable to conclude that in 1961 there was a liaison for the state in that city that went out to the local hospitals(2)daily if needed, got the forms and then went back to the office and processed them. It would make sense for all certs for the city of Honolulu to have the same date in both boxes, whereas facilities in outlaying areas were visited less frequently. Thus the delay in the accepting/filing of the certs.

Regardless, what Okubo has stated is that the numbers are issued when the document reaches the state level not the local/county level and the docs are stamped complete when that file number is recorded.

I'd say this is a case closed per the response by Okubo. The COLB number on ‘0’s form was issued and the doc was completed on Aug 8, 1961 and therefore it should be showing a lower number than the Nordyke twins certs as according to Okubo that is the only date that now appears on the colbs.

[fireman15]

I doubt whether anyone else would take credit for it.

[Danae]

Because thats his real birth name.

Under the scenario that I am thinking about (Only Obama would know if I am correct or not) BHO was born just exactly that, Barack Hussein Obama.

When he was 6 he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. In order to go to school in Indonesia, he had to get Indonesian documents, and those government issued documents would have required he be a citizen, so he gets his step-dads Nationality. Not all that big a deal, a KID can’t voluntarily give up citizenship. So that obstacle is something that can be overcome.

HOWEVER, it doesn’t end there. There is no evidence that Obama did anything to regain his US Citizenship when he came back to Hawaii to live with Grandma and Grandpa. He travels to Pakistan in 81, and there is no record (Berg FOIA request came back with no records) that he applied for a US passport. So there is evidence that he still had Indonesian Documents, there is ALSO the possibility he could have used his father’s British Citizenship and claimed THAT Nationality and traveled under British Documents. The British thing is pure speculation. We KNOW he had Indonesian papers at some point in his early life, and no indication he ever gave them up or had to.

So we know he had Indonesian Documents, a likely hood he never reapplied for US citizenship giving up the Indonesian Docs, and evidence he traveled to a foreign country which was pissed at America and Americans.

Then we find that he AMENDED his documents in 2006 before announcing he was running for POTUS. In Hawaii, if you do something like oh... nullify an Adoption to an Indonesian citizen..., your records GO BACK to what they were BEFORE the Adoption took place with a note about the fact that the file has been amended. It is as if it never even happened officially, your entire status reverts to what it was then ......legally.

He worked the system, likely aided by grandma who knew how to work the Hawaiian system and was connected enough to find out how to do it if she didn’t already know.

Danae - who has her flame proof undies on tonight.

[parsifal]

No. Its good. You need to convert to the Sanity Squad! Write songs to save your fellow Birthers! Do you want to waste your talent writing to defend Orly when you could be doing something like:

Ode to Orly Taitz

It was late February, and the year it was twenty ten.
I was surfing on line, slurping down a little lime and gin.
Well I was scrolling all around when the words flashed upon the screen.
And it nearly laid me out, now let me tell you what I seen.
Well it was something out of Outer Limits, something off of the deep end.
Today, Orly Taitz, the Birther Queen, went seeking help at the U.N.

Captain Quest, of the Sanity Squad

[Red Steel]

This is too good not to be repeated and contrasted in the same post with Okubo's statements.

EnderWiggins alleged email from some buddy written in Commie Red:

"I know you are... but my source is not Okubo. As we have seen here, Okubo's detailed expertise is rather lacking, since her explanation here actually reflects nothing that is found on Hawaiian birth certificates, either long or short form. She is a public relations person, and while doing her level headed best, she just doesn't have the hands on experience to get it quite right. Remember he saying months ago that they went "paperless" when she actually meant they went "computerized?"

The "explanation" you have posted here is at such variance with the actual documents that we know it is useless. That's why my source is an actual clerk at the DOH, a guy who (though not present in 1961) has a pretty good handle on the process in the 80s and late 70s.

I had a West Point classmate who retired to Hawaii personally go down to the DOH and speak to the clerks. This is what he wrote me back: -----------------------

"I spent about two and a half hour this afternoon at the Department of Health on Punchbowl Street. They passed me around to a couple of different clerical folks until they found someone in the health status monitoring office who handled birth certificates back in the early 80. His name was XXXXXXX.

He said that there were no copies of old procedures that he knew of, so he could not show me anything from the 60s. He said that nobody there had been around long enough to remember for sure what they did in the 60s. He did say that until the registration system went on-line (first at the Department of Health and then connected to hospital “ADT” systems a few years later) there were actually different procedures used to get the records from different outer islands at the same time, and they were not finally standard until some time after he arrived.

I asked him where the numbers were assigned, and he said it depended. For a number of years, hospitals with busy oby/gn practices got preassigned blocks of numbers from the state so that they wouldn’t duplicate each other. For a while before he got there the state actually issued hospitals the stamps that had those blocks of numbers in them, but that became too expensive, so they went back to just assigning the blocks.

Once the paperwork got to Honolulu, the numbers were entered into the state ledgers and the certificates filed. When I asked him if there was a local number too, he said no. The state number was the local number, so you could right to the hospital and find the same record under the same number.

When I asked him your question about how the hospital assigned the numbers he said he had no idea, he had never worked in one. He did figure that different hospitals would use different systems.

Let me know if you need me to go back. I don’t get to the city much since XXXXXXXX retired.

You say Ciao, we say Aloha,"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

And the correspondence from the Hawaiian Department of Health:

http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/confirmation-that-certificate-number-given-by-state-registrar%E2%80%99s-office/

RE: UIPA Request – DoH Administrave Rules, Regulations, or Procedures‏
From: Okubo, Janice S. (janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov)
Sent: Wed 2/03/10 11:12 AM
To:


Aloha,
In going back through my e-mails, I found this one and was unsure if a response had been provided. The public health regulations (or administrative rules) regarding vital records are posted at http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html There has been no repeal of these rules.

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i),and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

Historically, most often the “date accepted” and the “date filed” is the same date as the majority of births occur on O’ahu (the island with the largest population in our state). In the past, when births were recorded on paper they may have been accepted at a health office on an island other than O’ahu, such as Kaua’i. The paper record would then need to be sent to O’ahu to have a file number placed on it, and the filed date would then be sometime later (as you know, the state of Hawai’i is comprised of multiple islands with miles of water in between). The electronic age has changed this process significantly, and it was determined some time ago that one date would suffice.

Janice Okubo
Hawaii State Department of Health

[parsifal]

I wouldn’t flame you. Now some of these jokers....Your scenario would be a logical extension. But, the long form would still have the Obama stuff on it, so the amended paperwork would be necessary to confirm your hunch.

parsy, who is bouncing back and forth

[parsifal]

I wouldn’t flame you. Now some of these jokers....Your scenario would be a logical extension. But, the long form would still have the Obama stuff on it, so the amended paperwork would be necessary to confirm your hunch.

parsy, who is bouncing back and forth