DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

I've updated my blog to include the e-mail from Janice Okubo confirming that they assign birth certificate numbers in the state registrar's office and the day they do that is the "Date filed by state registrar".

The pertinent portion from Okubo's e-mail:

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

MY SUMMARY: As you can see, Okubo said that the “Date filed by the State Registrar” is the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office).

There are no pre-numbered certificates. A certificate given a certificate number on Aug 8th (Obama’s Factcheck COLB) would not be given a later number than a certificate given a number on Aug 11th (the Nordyke certificates).

There is no way that both the date filed and the certificate number can be correct on the Factcheck COLB. The COLB is thus proven to be a forgery.

[tutstar]

You are only here to cause trouble. That is obvious. TROLL

[EnderWiggins]

And that has exactly what to do with Constitutional eligibility?

[parsifal]

The truth is inconvenient sometimes. Hey, that would make a good book title—The Truth is Inconvenient! But, I digress.

Apparently, you like to post nearly 2 year old misleading information. That is a No No! That just ain’t right. Call me what you will.

Captain Quest, who soldiers on!

[BuckeyeTexan]

Birthers jump from one assumption to another and then another until they find the answer they want and, presto, they generate their own reality.

Yes, Obama is a liar. He lies about everything. He’s probably lying about his birth in some way or another. The problem is, there isn’t enough information out there to figure out what he’s lying about.

I’ve never said, not one single time, that Obama is telling the truth about his birth. You assume that I believe him because I ask logical questions and pose realistic scenarios.

Later.

[Danae]

LOL

You aren't normally this dense.

Obama born Aug 4th. FILED by Registrar (Given file number) Aug 8 Document Certificate number 151 1961 010641

Nordyke Twins Born Aug 5. FILED by Registrar (Given file number) Aug 11 Document Certificate Numbers 151 61 10637, 151 61 10638

This means that the number on the COLB posted at Fact Check has a certificate number several digits BEFORE Birth Documents filed and given numbers 3 days later.

That is not possible with any simple explanation.

What Okubo revealed here is that there is no general pile that is done every so oftenand the numbers just got shuffled around, there is no set of pre-numbered documents that maybe one hospital had a set and another hospital had another set of numbers.

No, the numbers were used in order and all done in the Honolulu office as the Dr. signed certificates in the case of Babies born on Oahu (where Honolulu is), and in the case of the outer islands and Military bases, the Local Registrar Received (and dated as being received) but not yet filed certificates would get their "Filed" Numbers and be entered into the record permanently with a date entered into the box 11c DATE ACCEPTED BY THE STATE.

This begs the question, how did Obama get a number that should have gone already to another baby? His paperwork was filed 3 days before the Nordyke's, meaning he should have a number LOWER than theirs by the number of babies that got FILED between Aug 8th and Aug 11th. Not Born.... but FILED, because people had 7 days to get that paperwork into the state, a child could have been BORN on the 7th and not had to have documents filed until the 14th, or they might have been filed on the 10, there is a lot of different possible numbers that could get generated out of that speculation. Only the DOH could answer that question with Statistics, and likely an FOIA request could be gotten for just that... maybe that should get done...

So the question you SHOULD be asking is this...

How many babies got paperwork Filed in Hawaii between the 8th and the 11th?butterdezillion That will be the ball park number that Obama should have EARLIER than the Nordyke Babies. Are you following yet? Obama should have had a LOWER certificate number, yet it is higher by 3-4..... Normally indicating a date FILED by the Registrar AFTER the Filing of the Nordyke Twins. The dates and the order of the Certificate numbers do not add up the way they should.

Note also, Hawaii has NEVER certified that what is on the internet is LEGITIMATE, either in its form, the data it contains, or the Certification number. Instead they say they have seen the Documents, which is NOT at all the same thing.

If this line of reasoning is correct, then 1) The FactCheck document is a forgery that has been pawned off by Obama as being real, a FRAUD upon this Nation as it is the ONLY evidence he has offered regarding his ELIGIBLITY to run for or be POTUS.

and 2) It means that the State of Hawaii is an ACCOMPLICE to this crime. If the FactCheck COLB is real, then Hawaii can LEGALLY say so. There is no right to privacy regarding documents already released publicly by the person in question, by Hawaii law and state statute! If it is NOT a legitimate Document, then Hawaii can't release any information regarding Obama's birth Documents with out his say so, and of course he has not given that say so.

So now you see, I hope, that Hawaii is between a rock and a hard place. They cannot certify what has been made public is real because what is public those pictures on Fightthesmears.com and Factcheck.org is a forgery. They can't even say that it is a fraud with out releasing information that by LAW they cannot release because the person in question refuses to allow them do so.

Read this post three times before you respond. Obama is counting on sheer confusion to cover his ass. Think it through. The logic is not that hard to follow.

[Red Steel]

Astounding how that works, isn't it? How many months did Birthers cry, "Where are the Nordyke birth announcements?" Finally, somebody got off their butts and went and looked for them. And gosh... they actually found them. What an astounding concept.

Amazing how you think an "email" from somewhere is going to convince us that you are telling us the truth. LoL! You must sell swampland like it's prime real estate.

Not writing emails to an overworked PR person who can recognize a vexatious requester at 300 meters, has already been attacked for just doing her job by Birthers in 20 states, and who has never pushed a piece of paper in her life. Actually going there and talking to somebody who has done the job!!

Fukino and Okubo overworked - huh? Maybe if they volunteered more information than they have instead of like it was pulling teeth from their heads they would have realized the info they provided would have disseminated on the Internet clearing up unknowns. But no, that's not how they do it. Those two act like everything about the Hawaiian DoH is a state secret.

It's a stunning innovation in research methodology; asking somebody who actually knows. I'm glad we've got West Point to train people to actually do stuff rather than sit around and speculate.

Oh please....with the West Point stuff. You're really trying toooo hard to present conservative credentials.

[STARWISE]

Have to say, he really IS a documented,
bold faced liar.

I thought Clinton was pathologically brazen
.. he’s a canary compared to this vulture.
And this vulture and Breckboy Edwards are
pretty much from the same snakepit of ethics.

[Danae]

No REALLY?!!!!!!!

Golly I never would have noticed the difference between “a ball got thrown at Tommy” and “a ball got thrown at Tommy by Billy”

Or is Omission not a form of different different answer? One has more information in it than the other.

[bgill]

As I understand it, the numbers at the county level are for locating the record in their files. They later receive notification from the state registrar regarding what the STATE file number is.

Yes, each level or stage has it's own. After it's gone through each step and is filed at the state level, the state informs the county of the official super duper number. The county then hand writes the state number onto their record. Again, where the state number is recorded varies from state to state. If there is no designated box it most likely will be recorded on the top right of the certificate. FYI, in Buckeye's state, there is a statement at the top right for "STATE FILE NO. ______"

[Danae]

I am not going to question this supposed letter or statement. Mostly because it is hearsay from a person I don’t know delivered by a person about whom I have serious suspicions about.

I will say this though, a State Official, in a position of authority in the Department of Health, making a statement has a great deal more weight or credibility to it than your “interviewer”.

The information that Butter got came from an actual official, in a position of authority in an email that is public record, and subject to FOIA requests.

This letter from your friend may or may not be true, it may or may not have been a legitimate and accurate source. We don’t know that. All we have is your word, and frankly that doesn’t go far with me.

Any LAWYER would put more weight on Okubo and Fukino’s statements than your letters from friends, by necessity.

[fireman15]

Kind of a slow day for you EnderWiggins. Only around 50 posts and 27 more pages for me to add to your file. What is it you do again, that allows you to post continuously from approximately 9 to 5 on weekdays with considerably less activity on the weekends? Which forums does the guy in the cubicle next to you post to? What time is it in New Delhi right now anyway? Don't worry buddy we will still be here when you get back tomorrow.

[Danae]

Mine states: “11b DATE RECEIVED BY LOCAL REGISTRAR” Which in Honolulu county is ALSO the state office which puts the file number on the document when it becomes: “11c DATE ACCEPTED BY THE STATE”.

And that's not the same thing that Okubo was talking about by a mile.

You are full of crap Eggie. It is EXACTLY what she was talking about.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/confirmation-that-certificate-number-given-by-state-registrar%E2%80%99s-office/

RE: UIPA Request – DoH Administrave Rules, Regulations, or Procedures‏
From: Okubo, Janice S. (janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov)
Sent: Wed 2/03/10 11:12 AM
To:


Aloha,

In going back through my e-mails, I found this one and was unsure if a response had been provided. The public health regulations (or administrative rules) regarding vital records are posted at http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html There has been no repeal of these rules.

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

Historically, most often the “date accepted” and the “date filed” is the same date as the majority of births occur on O’ahu (the island with the largest population in our state). In the past, when births were recorded on paper they may have been accepted at a health office on an island other than O’ahu, such as Kaua’i. The paper record would then need to be sent to O’ahu to have a file number placed on it, and the filed date would then be sometime later (as you know, the state of Hawai’i is comprised of multiple islands with miles of water in between). The electronic age has changed this process significantly, and it was determined some time ago that one date would suffice.

Janice Okubo
Hawaii State Department of Health

[EnderWiggins]

"What is it you do again, that allows you to post continuously from approximately 9 to 5 on weekdays with considerably less activity on the weekends?"

Continuously? I always get a big kick out of how you guys think this takes any time at all. I've gotten four meeting in three different buildings today. This stuff is hardly even a distraction.

LOL

[Danae]

Oh I BET you had 4 meetings in four different buildings....

BAWAHAHAHAHAA!

50+ posts today? LOL I am a stay at home mom and a University student and I don’t even have the time to make 50+ posts a day!

The more you post the less believable you get.

[EnderWiggins]

"I will say this though, a State Official, in a position of authority in the Department of Health, making a statement has a great deal more weight or credibility to it than your “interviewer”."

Great. Too bad what she wrote is shown to be wrong just by looking at the actual documents. But I'll tell you. When you want to learn how to snake a drain, you ask a plumber, not the PR Person for an architect.

"Any LAWYER would put more weight on Okubo and Fukino’s statements than your letters from friends, by necessity."

Yes, they would. And Fukino's statements are that Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.

[fireman15]

Truly EnderWiggins, I have to admit a certain grudging admiration for your persistence, energy and your vivid imagination. Wow! Four meetings in three different buildings and juggling us freepers in your spare time, probably tapping out posts on your I-phone no less. Most of us old guys just don't have that kind of energy. I went shopping with my wife today and had to come home and take a nap. It's no wonder your mother sent you off to kindergarten at four and a half years of age; you must have been wearing her out. ; )

[EnderWiggins]

"You aren't normally this dense."

Density has nothing to do with it. I just actually read what the documents say, rather than what i wish they said. For example:

Obama born Aug 4th. FILED by Registrar (Given file number) Aug 8 Document Certificate number 151 1961 010641

You actually have no idea when the file number was given. But you get even more imaginative with the Nordyke Twins:

"Nordyke Twins Born Aug 5. FILED by Registrar (Given file number) Aug 11 Document Certificate Numbers 151 61 10637, 151 61 10638"

Not only do you not know when the file number was givene, the certificate says "Filed by Registrar" exactly nowhere.

"This means that the number on the COLB posted at Fact Check has a certificate number several digits BEFORE Birth Documents filed and given numbers 3 days later."

You're only half right. The COLB has a number several digits AFTER (not before) those for kids born a day later. But you have no idea where or when or how they were given the numbers.

[EnderWiggins]

"Truly EnderWiggins, I have to admit a certain grudging admiration for your persistence, energy and your vivid imagination."

Why do you keep interrupting me Fireman? I have to get in thirty or so more posts so I can hit the imaginary quota of 50 you've given me. I'll never get that done if you keep posting meaningless stuff for me to read.

[fanfan]

(at least here in Texas)

Maybe it was done differently in Hawaii in 1961, than in Tx in 1986 - 1990?

When my children were born, the doctor signed the birth certificate, after we did, and it was sent to the government. We received a copy of the application, which had a number for tracing purposes.

The actual Canadian birth certificates make no reference to that first number, but do have a BC #, and the date filed by registrar.

This wouldn't be so important if zero was an OK, but misguided guy, but it's much worse than that.

Say goodbye to America if you don't stop him soon.

[bgill]

And I didn’t suggest otherwise. Move along.

I was commenting on your question to Okubo's statement. Click back to your post.