6 Factors in the Decline of the Roman Empire (and perhaps America)

Osnome | 6-25-09 | Osnome

[Osnome]

Six Most Important Factors that destroyed Roman Civilization:

1)Overtaxation

2)Opression of the Provences by the Central Government

3)Government topheavy with bureaucracy

4)Military power overextended across the world(their world at the time)

5)The Populace diverted by degenerate mass entertainment

6) The Borders poorly defended against increasing foreign migration(in their case, Barbarians)

[grey_whiskers]

Oh, Gibbon.

Never mind.

[prplhze2000]

Tiberius tried to give some back and there were a couple of others. Read Caesar and Christ by Will Durant.

I meant when then the army started appointing the emperor, such as Titus and those before him.

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

Titus inhereted the throne from his father Vespasian, although he got it largely as the result of support from the Legions....

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

Marcus Aureleus?

Julian II the Apostate also made moves to decentralise power back to the cities and the provinces.....

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

I’m not saying its a good thing, it is actually a bad thing. Fortunately, I think most, if not all of us will be dead by the time China is powerful enough to replace the US as the pre-eminent world power, barring some unforeseeable cataclysmic event that pushes things down the path even faster...

[Professional Engineer]

Welfare and ball games bttt

[budwiesest]

How does one stop it?

Put a lock on the cookie jar. Defend the treasury as if it mattered. Tell Congress (and every other traitor) the party's over. Fiscal discipline with teeth (voters who'll dump those who lack it). But- it can't happen 'till our schools and media get on board (and they won't).

Happy Bankruptcy, y'all.

[I Hate Obama]

These are the same steps that caused the collapse of every great nation.

[Citizen Soldier]

Yes. I had a debate at a party over the weekend with an Australian woman who moved here via Germany who thinks grocery stores should charge 25 cents for every plastic bag they give you and the state government should also pass a law aginst the stores giving them out. I tried to reason with her about capitalism and customer service and incentives but she knew it all, I promptly left when I realized evrybody there had to be like her, first clue should have been all the potlucks they brought were vegan.

[Osnome]

>>Julian II the Apostate also made moves to decentralize power back to the cities and the provinces.....<<

First I ever heard of that.

When did he rule anyway, the mid 4th century?

[Osnome]

>>I meant when then the army started appointing the emperor, such as Titus and those before him.<<

I thought that Titus inherited the throne from his father, Vespasian.
Vespasian used his army to seize control of the state after the ‘Year of the Four Emperors’ which happened after Nero was overthrown and committed suicide.

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

360s A.D.... He wasn’t well-liked by ancient historians in the years following his death because of how he tried to turn Rome back to paganism....

[Osnome]

>>360s A.D.... He wasn’t well-liked by ancient historians in the years following his death because of how he tried to turn Rome back to paganism....
<<

I know he tried to bring back the old gods of the Romans, but that is all he is known for.
First I heard he tried to return power back to the cities and provinces though

[Osnome]

>> All of the things you listed were present in their society but I think that you left off the principle reason for their demise. Their ruling class used their political power to excluse themselves from paying any taxes. Eventually the poorer citizens, tradesmen, and farmers could not pay all of the taxes needed by the state. This brought on the feudal states when the middle classes gave over their land holdings to the exempt ruler for a place on their growing estates. As the central government got weaker these rich citizens formed their own little kingdoms. It kind of reminds me of the corporations that send their factories over seas to avoid paying Americans a living wage, and in order to avoid paying taxes to support our country.
<<
Well that sounds like another factor in weakening the Roman state.
But I think my reasons are more important.

Feudalism was important to preserving society in the Dark Ages.
Feudalism was well established in the Roman World even as early as 400 A.D. so that lends some credence to your claim.

You cannot ascribe a single factor as cause to the decline of the Roman State and Empire.

[sinsofsolarempirefan]

He was probably the best Emperor in the entire Constantinian dynasty, who were mostly power-crazed, fratricidal religious zealots. He was a great admirer of emperors such as the philospher-emperor Marcus Aurelius, and he slashed imperial bureacracy and returned imperial land back to the cities, and these reforms essentially meant that the cities gained power at the expense of the central Roman state.
He deserved a much greater title than the contemptuous one he was lumbered with by his post-contemporaries....

[Brad’s Gramma]

Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Hear Ye!

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45 posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:41:31 PM by Jim Robinson (Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jimrobfr)

[pissant]

#1. Christianity

[Osnome]

Emperor Aurelian of the 3rd century should have been remembered as a reformer too.
His life was cut short by the long string of assassinations of emperors that marked most of that century- also another factor in weakening the Roman state.