Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
I don't know the man, so I'm certainly in no place to doubt his sincerity. He's entitled to his beliefs, and I disagree with much of what he says. That about sums it up.
True, yet one of the saddest statements. The Republic has been crushed, and the citizenry haven't the realization of what they've lost.
Why is that the relevant part? All that clause did was ensure that the fort could not be used by someone to hide from criminal or civil proceedings. In other words, South Carolina authorities could enter the fort to serve warrants if needed. Similar language can most likely be found in any legislation deeding property to the government. That clause in no way implies any control or ownership of the property by the state of South Carolina. It was, in all respects, the property of the U.S. government. Constitutionally it could not be otherwise.
Yeah, it's called the 9th amendment. Unfortunately, both liberals and social conservatives tend to ignore its existence.
The Confedrassah, Will Rise-ah, again-ah.
Which one of our beloved nutballs made this call? Come on confess.
The fact that the confederate army depended heavily on black labor as cooks, servants, teamsters, laborers, and the like is unquestionable. The suggestion that tens of thousands of blacks fought in confederate ranks as infantry or cavalry or artllerymen, shoulder to shoulder whith their white bretheren is nonsense. Confederate legislation did not allow blacks to be enlisted in supporting roles until early 1864, and did not authorize the enlistment of blacks into the combat arms until March 1865.
That would be the 10th Amendment. The 9th deals with rights, the 10th deals with powers.
You miss the point - South Carolina had already seceded and considered itself no longer part of the United States.
The original colonies were admitted to the union when they ratified the constitution. They joined the union as colonies not as individual people.
In any event, an entity that joins a union should be able to leave it - otherwise it is assimilation rather than a union.
The argument can be made for secession was legal for states like Georgia and Texas that were independent entities before joining the United States. States like Alaska that were acquired by the federal government are a different story.
I'm off to the Rush thread take care Billy Yank
Uh, no. He was opposed to the outside imposition of abolition on the South, as he (rightly) believed it would spark rebellion. But he was personally in favor of abolition, and was the leader of the Republican Party, which had an abolitionist and free soil platform.
The state of Wisconsin is in a totally different category than states like Georgia, Virgina and the Carolinas who were independent entities prior to the existence of the United States. They were colonies who joined a union but not neccesarily agreed to be absorbed or assimilated.
Wisconsin was just carved up out of existing federal land. Alaska is a totally different situation as well as it was purchased by the United States so it belongs to the US.
The hypocrisy of slandering the south and raising up the north as moral examples would never hold up if the facts were examined. Unfortunately, the country isn't interested in digging into that can of worms. Can you really blame them? They are happy to kick the south as the bad guy for eternity. Works for them!
Virginia explicitly retained the right to leave the union in its conditional ratification of The Consitution.
Thank Patrick Henry for pressing for that clause and for the agreement that there would be a Bill of Rights subsequent to ratification.
Actually the 9th was exactly what I meant. The poster that I was replying to was shocked that a person would think that all rights were not enumerated in the constitution.
The 9th amendment makes it clear that the constitution is not an exhaustive enumeration but rather a limitation on the power of the Federal government.
So, you are implying, that Abe would do to Taiwan what he did to the South. Shoot Em!
From Virginia's ratification document:
WE the Delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected in pursuance of a recommendation from the General Assembly, and now met in Convention, having fully and freely investigated and discussed the proceedings of the Federal Convention, and being prepared as well as the most mature deliberation hath enabled us, to decide thereon, DO in the name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression...snip (end quote of Ratification document)
Note Virginia delegated powers under the condition that the power to withdraw that delegation of power was retained and could be utilized "whensoever" the people's rights in Virginia were injured or oppressed, and like it or not, there right to self determination and existing property rights were being injured. Therefore Virginia legally seceeded from the union. Further, if virginia did not legally seceed, then West Virginia is not a legal state of the union. (subdivision of states is prohibited by the constitution.)
Can we agree that Virginia's secession was legal?
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