Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
And that's why we have slavery to this day in America.
There are always unforseen consequences. Why? Because once a choice is made it is open to everyone and everyone doesn't always do things as they should.
You are very smooth and not at all crass /sarc
You'll fit in well on these threads with certain others. Good grasp of worthwhile dialog:)
JMHO
And that's why we have slavery to this day in America.
Good plan - destroy the economic engine of the state. You do realize that the Atlanta area is mostly Republican right? Ever heard of Cobb, Gwinnett, Forsyth, Fayette and Cherokee counties? Even northern Fulton county is heavily conservative.
Without Atlanta, Georgia would only have half as many electoral votes - votes that almost always go to the conservative candidate.
Geesh, we really need another party as a lot of the liberal claims of republicans being brainless and unsophisticated are unfortunately true.
"The Gop forgot that good old honest Abe signed a Amendment that proteced Slavery for all time"
An Amendment that protected slavery for all time? Look at the bigger picture...the Emancipation Proclamation. The Democrats, on the other hand, have a worse track record. Check out the book! I got off the plantation!
Yes. I would argue that rather then talk of "Presidents", we should consider "Presidencies", primarily because FDR had two "Presidencies" (prewar and war, being the two). His prewar presidency was, in my mind, the worst Presidency in history.
amen to that
It was passed two-thirds of the majority and sign by Lincoln if the south really cared about Slavery one would think they would have went along and come back into the union and support the 13TH Amendment which protected Slavery
Should i also read GoodWin books two?
The very fact of slavery is so egregious that the fact alone trumps any and all arguments which Southern sympathisers may wish to put forth. Case closed.
The vigor by which Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan prosecuted the war may have been the reason that Lee surrendered unconditionally. The will of the South had been broken. When you think about it, the South had a separate culture from the North, a culture that had some reprehensible features and wrongheadedness by its adherents. In these ways, there is a parallel to the mindset of our opponents in the middle east. People justified the unjustiable and thought they were right, indeed God was on their side. To complete the circle, it may be necessary for our military to devastate our adversaries, much like Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan did.
"Should i also read GoodWin books two?"
Huh? Sorry, I guess I thought you were serious and open minded. Guess I thought wrong.
LOL I'm sorry just trying to have a little fun but yeah i will read this book of yours (:
Sorry, I didn't get that you were having fun. Hopefully, you will read it. The author is Michael Zak. Enjoy!
You should read books written by the Great John C. Calhoun
Odd point to bring up... Are you saying that Atlanta is a "valid military target" but the Pentagon isn't?
Are you criticizing those who feel they were righteous before their God in sacrificing their lives to take down a building containing 3,000 people? Do you advocate punishment of those who support such behavior or find the suicide-attackers to be heroes?
You probably advocate throwing them into Gitmo or exterminating them, eh?
"That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people whenever it should become necessary to their happiness, that every power, jurisdiction and right which is not by the said Constitution clearly delegated to the Congress of the United States or the departments of the government thereof, remains to the people of the several States, or to their respective State governments, to whom they may have granted the same; and that those clauses in the said Constitution, which declare that Congress shall not have or exercise certain powers, do not imply that Congress is entitled to any powers not given by the said Constitution; but such clauses are to be construed either as exceptions to certain specified powers or as inserted merely for greater caution."Virginia had said something similar, but that didn't stop Lincoln from invading her:
"The delegates do, in the name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known that the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the people of the United States, may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression, and that every power not granted thereby remains with them and at their will."And who cares that James Madison, father of the Constitution, stated:
"The assent and ratification of the people, not as individuals composing an entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent States to which they belong, are the sources of the Constitution. It is, therefore, not a national but a federal compact."All those realities get ignored by the lefties who want to centralize as much power in the Federal government and revere Lincoln as their diety for crushing the ideals of the Constitution.
...even domestically, I guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Lincoln sent out notes of congratulations after Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc....
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