Posted on 09/22/2006 2:09:33 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
Free Republic is currently running a poll on this subject:
Do you think creationism or intelligent design should be taught in science classes in secondary public schools as a competing scientific theory to evolution?You can find the poll at the bottom of your "self search" page, also titled "My Comments," where you go to look for posts you've received.
I don't know what effect -- if any -- the poll will have on the future of this website's science threads. But it's certainly worth while to know the general attitude of the people who frequent this website.
Science isn't a democracy, and the value of scientific theories isn't something that's voted upon. The outcome of this poll won't have any scientific importance. But the poll is important because this is a political website. How we decide to educate our children is a very important issue. It's also important whether the political parties decide to take a position on this. (I don't think they should, but it may be happening anyway.)
If you have an opinion on this subject, go ahead and vote.
Yes it does. To be quite honest, God created life from nothing. Our four dimensions cannot comprehend even one dimension more. God has 9-11 different dimensions over us. Even Einstein had to concede to the existence of a "superior reasoning power".....because his own theories that led to the discovery of the Big bang.
God will not accept any soul that does not accept his son Jesus and the fact that God created the forces that he used to create the Universe and life and put on it's own foundation.
This life we have is a practice for the next....you don't come back again. Once you die your soul is put on "hold" for lack of a better word and long term explanation. When God returns and Jesus takes those souls who accepted him, those alive at that time won't have a warning. They go......that is the .0000000001 of a second explanation for it. And yet the truth is much simpler but we have to have the long term reasoning before we actually come to the cross roads. Evolution is counter to the Bible, no question about it. There is no other God before God and his son Jesus. It's that easy...........
Took me a lot of questioning and not accepting this, believing in Evolution and other things......to realize that Evolution doesn't exist even if I had or didn't have a belief in God. The notion is almost comical. Forget believing in God; even then Evolution makes no sense.....all parts considered. It is only a partial explanation even if you believe it.
First of all it's still not reality.....it's never been proven. Secondly, your soul has everything to do with it, said respectfully of course.
I believe in God. And I refuse to believe that His universe is filled with lies.
And no scientific theory is ever proven.
Consider this alternative hypothesis. My hunch is that most of the non-freeper voters are banned former freepers. People who are banned tend to have stronger opinions. There's a correlation between holding strong opinions and a tendency to get into flame wars. That accounts for fewer undecideds amoung the non-freepers. If creationists make up a larger proportion of those who get banned, that would account for the higher proportion of non-freepers voting "yes."
If the non-freeper results really are due to cheating, I think we'd see a much higher "yes" proportion. 63% is not all that high.
But I agree, the registered freeper poll is probably more accurate, as that is harder to cheat.
It may be narrow, but it is very important.
As I suggested earlier, the poll questions seems to have grown out of a very specific political contest:
[Michigan Gov. Candidate] DeVos says he wants intelligent design taught in science classes.
Nonetheless, I voted 'no'.
I find it fascinating that the supporters of ID always assume that it's the Judaeo-Christian God that is the Designer, whereas there are a whole lot of other Gods and Goddesses competing for that honour. Personally, if I have to go for an ID worldview, I'd fit Ymir and Audhumla into it somewhere...
placemarker
It is written that Prometheus is responsible for creating man. I think they should teach the controversy.
Okay......so, we are in absolute complete agreement. His universe is not filled with lies, only people that lie. The Bible is truth. Yes, no scientific theory is ever proven, and Evolution is a theory only that for some, they try to teach it as not a theory, but fact. Its a theory only......as :)) others believe that UFO's brought life to the Earth...can you imagine. They will actually argue this point and accept no others.....lolol...Then others believe that there was this soup......lightning struck it, and there you have it....Frank in stein....:))) I always thought "Frank in Stein" was someone that fell in a vat of beer.....
God is only truth, he left us his truth in the Bible.....he sent his son to Earth from Heaven and you know the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say.
So, we are in agreement with what you said....We both believe in God, we both refuse to believe that his universe is filled with lies...even though Satan would have you believe otherwise.....and certainly scientific theory is just that a theory, not proven.
That's interesting. We are told every day that the rest of the world actually cares what Americans think and they think what comes out of Hollywood is what Americans think. Hollywood favors Evolution 99-1.
Hi Dave! Jeepers, I'm having a really difficult time figuring out how to answer this poll. I just don't like the wording of the poll question, I guess. I don't like the thought that Darwinism and ID are "competing theories." Further, I do not see that creationism is a theory in the scientific sense; and well you say that ID presented as such would probably not get a fair shake in classrooms under present conditions. I think that's unfortunate; for certainly ID would have to include such things as information theory (e.g., Shannon's theory of communications), applications of quantum field theory to living systems, the mathematical basis of genetic coding, etc. ID is not "monolithic" and does not have a full-blown theory. What it is so well suited for, however, is its searching interest in asking the right questions, and looking in certain new areas of science that have been developing over the past several decades, but which do not seem to have come to the attention of neoDarwinian theorists.
ID gets a bad rap because people have been misled as to what it signifies. It does not propose any particular intelligent agent or phenomenon, and does not seem to be an argument for "special creation," of a God constantly intervening in the physical universe. Plus it has no eschatology, no holy writ, no dogmas, no hierarchical authority -- in short it bears no signs that we associate with religion or religious practice.
To the extent that neoDarwinists continue to include speculations about abiogenesis (something that Charles Darwin never endorsed) in high school biology courses, then some kind of antidote or corrective is needed. Perhaps they could just mention somewhere along the way that after people like Francis Crick and Hubert Yockey, the expectation that the origin of life bottoms out in chemistry is highly likely to be a dead letter?
Still don't know how to vote; am leaning "yes" but am still not sure.... Maybe I'll just sit this one out....
Thanks so much for the ping, Dave!
"I'm actually leaning more towards undecided, although I voted yes. It's a conditional yes. Science classes as they are structured would not give creationism or intelligent design a fair hearing. So as things stand now, it would take more work to give a balanced perspective."
I agree with your assessment. I voted yes, but it is "conditional" as you say. I just checked the results, and was pleasantly surprised to see that the "yes" had the largest number of votes. I didn't expect this. I really thought the "No" or "Undecided" would be much more. I guess the Free Republic audience is more completely conservative (to include a thiestic vs materialistic/atheistic view of science) than I thought.
Evolution is not a theory either. Go ahead and vote. Remember that evolution is useful to botany taxonomists and social scientists.
Told by whom? What you think of some things matters, of course, since you're currently the only superpower, but all the pro-creation stuff is really rather eccentric.
This is basically a freedom of speech issue, i.e. are American school kids going to get to learn that there actually is a controversy on this topic and that there actually are scientific arguments to be made against evolution, or are they going to be kept in the dark by self-appointed science censors.
I'm sorry but you're incorrect.
Micropaleontology is the study of microscopic fossils. It is the largest discipline in paleontology, just as microfossils are by far the most abundant of all fossils. Although nearly invisible, micro-organisms at the base of the food chain make up nearly 90 per cent of the biomass in oceans and lakes. The variety of life forms at this level is almost incomprehensible, and while only a few kinds leave solid remains that fossilize, even these few can be so abundant that in places they form mountains of pure fossil remains. The limestone of the plateau from which the Sphinx and Pyramids are carved is actually a mass of foraminifera, preserved in a vast offshore formation that, 40 million years ago, extended from France to Burma. The Chalk Cliffs of Dover, another microfossil marvel, is a layer hundreds of feet thick all across western Europe that consists of nothing but sub-microscopic coccoliths. In other parts of the world, solidly packed remains of diatoms make up formations of thin-layered diatomite hundreds of feet thick that are quarried for industrial uses.
The abyssal floor of the ocean, which occupies more than half of the earth's surface, is buried under a carpet of microfossils that slowly piles up like layers of dust over the millenia. Changes in the abundance and types of microfossils from year to year, over millions of years of undisturbed accumulation, makes an exquisitely detailed record of climate change, plate tectonics, and biological evolution. Each time a new species of free-floating marine micro-organism evolves, it quickly spreads throughout the oceans in countless billions, forming a worldwide marker in the fossil record. Such marker horizons allow geological events in different parts of the world to be related in a global earth history. For instance, it was the microfossil "tape recorder" that proved that reversals of the polarity of the earth's magnetism were worldwide events. Microfossil data also revealed that changes in sea levels, temperature, and glacial advances were synchronous worldwide, proving the reality of global climate changes more accurately than geochemical dating methods. Recently, micropaleontology has shown how oscillations in the earth's orbit and tilt lead to cycles in global climate, including the Ice Ages.
Microfossils are vital to oil exploration. Because of their tiny size and great abundance, they occur unbroken in the rock fragments brought up by drilling into the deeply buried ocean formations and lake beds where oil is found. By comparing the characteristic fossils from each formation as they are penetrated by the exploratory drills, geologists can unravel the geometry of the strata far beneath the surface and locate the domes and traps that may hold oil. The condition of the fossils, as well, indicates whether the petroleum source rocks have been buried and heated sufficiently to generate oil from trapped organic matter. Most importantly of all, the organic matter itself is almost entirely from ancient micro-organisms that make up the ocean's biomass.
The story of Creation is very popular worldwide. Christians, Moslems, and Pagans like it a lot. The extensions by Milton and Gnostics are particularly charming. It's all stories by way of lessons told to children by their grandparents as far as I am concerned.
Can't read all that. Boil it down to essentials.
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