Churches urged to back evolution

British Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 20 February 2006 | Paul Rincon

[ToryHeartland]

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.

Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

'Who's kidding whom?'

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

Some have already heeded the warning.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

Economic risk

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[When_Penguins_Attack]

So, in other words, a jew is condemned to hell unless he violates the pieces of his orthodox teaching he holds to be fundamental: the shema and the 1st Commandment, by accepting christ as savior.

Pardon me, but I HATE the (non-biblical) phrase "accepting Christ as savior." I think it mawkish, man centered, and contentless. That aside, why are you so hung up on Jews? All the first century Christians for the first 20 of so years were almost exclusively Jewish, and many were what we would call "orthodox" today. The great shema regarding "echad adonai" is in no way a violation of the teaching that Jesus is God. Paul would have been first in line to attest that, along with 12 other hebrews in the first century. If some modern day descendant of Abraham picks the nature of the Godhead to reject the gospel, there is no difference between that and myself rejecting it because I instinctively knew I would have to stop getting laid (at least while I was single). Both are decisions to reject an alien righteousness offered to us and to stand on our own.

[donh]

I've changed no subject, I've asked you your opinion, and, for some reason, you are shy about delivering it. I wonder why.

I don't multi-task well.

You don't uni-task well enough to be thinking about multi-tasking.

You've not pointed out where, in this thread, I said the things you said I did.

So what? That's not obiously slander. Calling me a liar in big red letters on a public forum is.

I wonder why?

Because you've done nothing whatsoever to merit it.

[ml1954]

but merely the claim that personal bias plays a factor.

Of course this implies, you are cognizant of your own personal bias. N'est pas?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"It has not been demonstrated to me; please elucidate."

First, let me know what you're talking about. That might help. :)

[When_Penguins_Attack]

You can probably pick up the thread of discussion at post #1935

I think I was responding earlier to a question you asked about an obscure passage about Jesus proclaiming to the spirits in prison. You asked if it was it was b/c it was demeaning to orthodox Jews. I said no, it did not mention Orthodox Jews, and it didn't mention Jews at all.

Just for the record, I encourage you to call me on it if you EVER think I misrepresent you, or am just being a jerk, and ESPECIALLY if you think I post anything not true. Internet forums are venues for chest thumping and lotsa bullshit. I really believe the stuff I say, and I believe that I will have to answer for every word I type. Although I don't necessarily expect you to acknowledge what I am saying as true, I sincerely hope you will at least think "I would not mind watching a ball game and drinking a brew with this guy." That is my hope, anyway.

It is time to go get a few beers. I am outta here till Monday.

[donh]

That aside, why are you so hung up on Jews?

I didn't expect you to answer my question, no modern christian apologist seems able to hold this problem in their heads for more than a millisecond. I am hung up on jews because the biblical teachings about jews--in particular, about the fact that they are damned if they stick to their most fundamental beliefs--in the Gospels were the excuses used by the christian churches to orchestrate 1400 hundred years of systematic torture, murder, imprisonment, child-kidnapping, and desecration of jews under to color of christian law.

[donh]

To: donh Which are the the easy ones about which there has never arisen any controversy amongst the faithful or the cynical?

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever puts their trust in Him will never perish, but will have everlasting life."

Are you kidding? This is THE bone of contention between orthodox jews and modern christians. Jews generally think this is a terrible idea--to forgive sin is to tolerate sin, and invite more of it. When jews speak of "salvation through works", which is a phrase you may have heard bandied about, they mean as opposed to through the agency of accepting christ.

[donh]

The great shema regarding "echad adonai" is in no way a violation of the teaching that Jesus is God.

I believe I'll take the orthodox jew's opinion on this subject over yours. When I read the the first 3 Commandments, I don't see any indication that statues of some human named jesus, and his mom, should appear in virtually every christian church, right where, and to whom, prayers are supposed to be directed, whereas a likeness of God is nary to be seen. Didn't that Golden Calf story sink home anywhere?

[P-Marlowe]

So,...who, exactly, in this exchange, is it that appears to be covering his heiny with a little after-the-fact two-stepping?

You know something? You are an idiot.

[Ken H]

Me: Is that a "yes" or a "no", as to whether the Nazis were doing the Lord's work, in your opinion?

The Bible plainly shows (and secular history is silent) that the 'Jews' had turned away from GOD (again) and they suffered the consequences of their actions.

That means they brought their suffering on themselves by turning away from God. Agreed?

The Bible plainly shows (and secular history backs up) the fact that the 'Jews' were finally driven from their land around 70 AD (No wimpy CE for me!) .  Was it because the majority of them did NOT accept Christ as the Messiah?  The BOOK seems to indicate that.

That also means they brought it on themselves.

    So, IMHO, I'd have to say that the Nazi's appear to have done the same kind of things that have been done historically to the 'Jews', so yes, I think that they did.

That means that Jews brought their suffering on themselves at the hands of the Nazis, as they did in the biblical examples you gave, right?

[wallcrawlr]

Possibly they can't stand reading through your scriptural dung piles any more than I can.

Its just good to know you do read it.

[donh]

You know something? You are an idiot.

The usual clear, detailed and lucid last defense of the naturally-occuring creationist.

[P-Marlowe]

I was just stating the obvious.

Bye.

[donh]

I was just stating the obvious.

That word is spelled "oblivious".

[PatrickHenry]

O Lord, let this thread end soon!

[Elsie]

You slandered me, and when I asked you to merely verify your opinion, which is the bone of contention, you refused to answer.

 

Uh... who slandered who??

 

 

To: Elsie

Dead babies... You don't like what's in the Book either; do you?

You like the idea of bears mauling chlldren, murdering all the first born infants of egypt in their cribs, and murdering wholesale a nations non-virgin children, and handing all the virgins over to be molested and enslaved? You must be a lot of fun at S&M parties.

Why do I have to defend what is there?

Oh, let me think...oh yea, because you want to re-impose the bible as the law of the land, as in the days when the church cruelly tortured and murdered it's political and philosophical opposition.

You have made your choice, so live with it, as I will with mine.

As I recall, I am not the one who spews out endless bible verse, of generally little or no merit pertaining to whatever is being discussed, but do seem to be specially selected to highlight the most morally objectionable, more or less disgusting parts of the bible. As long as you insist on so lowering the tone, attractiveness, and comprehensibility of these threads, you are not the only one who has to live with your supercilious, callous choices.

1,683 posted on 02/23/2006 8:18:11 AM CST by donh

 

 

 

The balls in your court; gonna play or whine?

[Elsie]

Why don't you break precedent and answer a simple question once in a while? Are orthodox jews damned because they cannot acknowledge jesus is savior with violating their basic beliefs as orthodox jews? Is that why you just caughed up an acre of anti-jewish spewings from the Gospels, or not?

Why don't YOU admit your mistake of putting those words in my mouth???

[Elsie]

Does God know what a bunch of whining sissies he's got in His cheering section?

Does Satan know what a bunch of characterizationers he's got in his cheering section?

[Elsie]

That's not obiously slander.

Then your buddies will back you up; right?

[Elsie]

When jews speak of "salvation through works", which is a phrase you may have heard bandied about, they mean as opposed to through the agency of accepting christ.

 

 

 

Galatians 3

 1.  You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
 2.  I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
 3.  Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
 4.  Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing?
 5.  Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
 6.  Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
 7.  Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
 8.  The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
 9.  So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
 10.  All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
 11.  Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
 12.  The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."
 13.  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
 14.  He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
 15.  Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.
 16.  The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed,"  meaning one person, who is Christ.
 17.  What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
 18.  For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
 19.  What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
 20.  A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
 21.  Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
 22.  But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
 23.  Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
 24.  So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ  that we might be justified by faith.
 25.  Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
 26.  You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
 27.  for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
 28.  There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 29.  If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.