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To: RWR8189
NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country. CAFTA may prove to be deadly.
18 posted on 07/27/2005 9:32:17 PM PDT by upchuck ("If our nation be destroyed, it would be from the judiciary." ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: upchuck
NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country.

That's right. 21 million new jobs and higher real wages. Save us from more good stuff like that. LOL!!!

20 posted on 07/27/2005 9:33:58 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with Marx, the AFL-CIO and E.P.I. please stop calling yourself a conservative!!)
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To: upchuck
NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country.

Said the economically ignorant...

29 posted on 07/27/2005 9:36:01 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: upchuck
NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country.

Yes, unions have lost a lot of power, and our manufacturing sector needs a savvy rethink, not just a knee-jerk complaint; but our unemployment is lower than when NAFTA was passed and the percent of people owning their own homes is higher than it has ever been, so I can't agree with the word "disaster."

39 posted on 07/27/2005 9:39:59 PM PDT by patriciaruth (They are all Mike Spanns)
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To: upchuck

NAFTA passes Congress, October 1993: Unemployment Rate 6.8%

Today: Unemployment Rate 5.0%

GDP Q3 1993: $7,536.0 trillion

GDP Q1 2005: $11,096.2 trillion

(2000 chained dollars)

The death of our economy has been greatly exaggerated...


52 posted on 07/27/2005 9:46:23 PM PDT by RWR8189 (I Will Sit on My Hands in 2008 Instead of Voting for McCain)(No Money for the NRSC)
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To: upchuck
"NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country." - upchuck

It's one thing to make a claim, quite another to support it with facts.

What disaster has befallen our great land due to NAFTA, specifically? Is it so insignificant that you can't name it and I can't see it?

Wouldn't you have had a stronger argument against CAFTA if NAFTA truly had been bad?

Oh, did you notice that the Teamsters and SEIU just bolted from the AFL-CIO? Do you think unions are stronger in the post-NAFTA world or weaker?

82 posted on 07/27/2005 10:01:52 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: upchuck
Just a few points.

The top 1% of the people (in terms of wealth) are steadily increasing their per centage of the US's wealth the bottom 95% are losing wealth.

The real wages of a typical "working man" have been steadily declining since 1973.

Under NAFTA, if Acme Widgets makes two half widgets and ships them to Mexico to its maquiladora; they sign a purchase order and it becomes an export to Mexico. Then it is shipped back here as a complete widget. So our balance of trade with Mexico is even worse than the official figures.

From the recession of 2001, if we did not count government jobs there would be a net job loss as of a few months ago. People have looked at the breakdown of private sector jobs created; they are primarily waiters, hotel workers, hospital orderlies, retail sales -- you know the real high tech jobs. There is either a small or negative job growth for whites and blacks; hispanic job growth is good.

The unemployment figures are cooked, boiled and roasted by the administration. One of the things that points to the invalidity of these figures is the discrepancy between the "unemployment count" and the household survey. It would be difficult to prove, but part of the discrepancy is probably due to the large number of illegal aliens. Illegal aliens don't exist for one count but do in the survey. Similarly there are large numbers of people who are unemployed but are not counted as unemployed.

There is evidence that people are moving down in wages. The guy that used to be an engineer and is now driving a federal express truck is making less money. But he is employed.

You have to remember, free trade, is part of a religion for some people just slap that title on a piece of crap and they will worship a piece of crap. Anybody that doesn't do well is a "loser". Get with it, scorch and burn the US for cheaper twinkies.
215 posted on 07/27/2005 11:52:33 PM PDT by RATkiller (I'm not communist, socialist, Democrat nor Republican so don't call me names)
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To: upchuck; RWR8189
NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country.

I fear you are talking to a brick wall.

There's a certain breed of human that doesn't care about country.

All they care about is how they can best make money.

And if someone doesn't want to try to make money their way, then they judge us wrong for wanting some other way--as they are enlightened and we are backward.

482 posted on 07/28/2005 11:01:11 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: upchuck; LenS; Toddsterpatriot; gonewt; dalereed; Willie Green; Nachum; hubbubhubbub; snowrip; ...
NAFTA has proved to be a disaster for our country. CAFTA may prove to be deadly.--upchuck

NAFTA demonstrates how American free enterprise economics works. Economic ignorance doesn't. As Prof. Joseph Salerno has explained:

"Capital flowing out of a nation, to other areas where its more productive, to the third world countries, enormously develops the productivity of labor in [those countries] and increases the market for our goods while raising wages and profits in the export industry... Free-market economics gets resources going into their most value productive employments."

That's the way it works in the United States. People should be promoting the American model, especially when the politically insane libs think that America needs to be more like the rest of the world. I can't believe how some of you on Free Republic bought the nonsense that NAFTA was bad for our country or for the other two involved, especially after all the proof to the contrary.

"Each one of the three [NAFTA] signatory countries -- Mexico, Canada, and the United States -- has 'grown considerably faster' than during the previous decade..." Grant Aldonas, Under Secretary of Commerce for International Trade. In the period of 1999-2003 All NAFTA member economies have grown significantly: U.S., 38%; Canada, 30.9%; Mexico, 30% growth:

U.S. exports to Canada and Mexico grew. Canada's exports to its NAFTA partners increased by 104% in value. Mexican exports increased by almost 227%. Representing a free trade area with about one-third of the worlds total GDP, the NAFTA economies are significantly larger than that of the European Union. Even with the addition of ten new members, the EU's GDP will still be well behind that of the NAFTA region.

The dismantling of free trade barriers and opening of markets have led to economic growth and rising prosperity in the US, Mexico and Canada. The total volume of trade among the three NAFTA partners expanded from 389.3 billion in 1993 to $623.1 billion in 2003.

In the ten years since NAFTA, productivity rose 28% in the US from 1993-2003, in Mexico up 55% and in Canada up 23%.

In the first decade of NAFTA, US manufacturing output soared, U.S. employment grew, and U.S. manufacturing wages increased dramatically. Income gains and tax cuts from NAFTA were worth up to $930 each year for the average US household of four.

In Mexico, wages in export-related industries are 37% higher than the rest of it's economy. Mexican wages and employment tend to be higher in states with higher foreign investment and trade, and migration from those states is lower. Wages are also higher in sectors with more exposure to imports and exports.

Two-way agricultural trade between the US and Mexico increased more than 125% since NAFTA went into effect, reaching $14 billion in 2003 compared with $6.2 billion in 1993.

Merchandise exports to the US from Canada expanded by 250% since 1989 and account for 87.2% of Canada's total merchandise exports.

Through the Commission for Environmental Cooperation, which was created from NAFTA, all three countries have beneffited from coordination which is increasing in the effectiveness of conservation efforts by developing the North American Conservation Action Plans for three shared marine species, providing tools such as a map of terrestrial ecoregions which management agencies are using in their programs.. NAFTA partners have undertaken a wide-range of cooperative programs and technical exchanges on industrial relations.

(Source: Office of the U.S. Trade Representative)

Our first opportunity to open new markets is the Central American and Dominican Republic Free Trade Agreement. It's a classic win-win situation. We have the opportunity here to open new markets for our workers, for our farmers, for our service providers, while, at the same time, leveling the playing field with a region that already enjoys mostly duty-free access to the United States. At the same time, we can help lift people out of poverty in Central America and the Dominican Republic, and we can help solidify those fragile democracies and staunch allies.~President George W. Bush

548 posted on 07/28/2005 4:25:24 PM PDT by Sirc_Valence (By "paint the nation blue" they mean "depress everyone.")
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To: upchuck

Disaster....millions of new jobs, unemployment 1% lower that when NAFTA was signed, lower interest rates, REal GDP up 50%, Exports have doubled, and consumer spending has almost doubled.


673 posted on 07/29/2005 2:32:46 PM PDT by laissez- faire
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