Confederate States Of America (2005)

Yahoo Movies ^ | 12/31/04 | Me

[Caipirabob]

What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?

While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.

Stars with bars:

Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.

Some things are better left dead in the past:

For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.

Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.

Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:

So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?

Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.

This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.

Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.

At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.

So what do you think of this movie?

[nolu chan]

Much of Europe formally declared neutrality.

NEUTRALITY, international law. The state of a nation which takes no part between two or more other nations at war with each other.

Bouvier's Law Dictionary, 1856 Edition

Now observe how that internationally accepted definition of "neutrality" changed duiring the century and a half following the release of that edition of Bouvier's Law Dictionary.

NEUTRALITY, The state of a nation which takes no part between two or more other nations at war.

Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed., 1990

And here is an up-to-date source on International Law and Neutrality

http://www.eda.admin.ch/sub_dipl/e/home/thema/intlaw/neutr.html

1. Definition and characteristics

The term "neutrality" is defined by the international community as non-participation in armed conflicts between other states. A distinction must be made however between the law of neutrality and the policy of neutrality.

The law of neutrality is the area of international law that contains the provisions that must be observed by the neutral states in times of international armed conflict and the provisions that the parties of the conflict must observe in the same context. For the most part these concern the right of the neutral states to be left undisturbed during such conflicts and their obligations of impartiality and non-participation. In practice such obligations do not interfere greatly with the freedom of action of neutral states. The sources of the international law of neutrality are customary international law on the one hand, and the 1907 neutrality agreements of the Hague on the other (SR 0.515.21). The law of neutrality is applicable only in conflicts between states, and not in purely internal conflicts (e.g. civil wars). Neither does the law of neutrality apply when the United Nations decide on coercive measures against a lawbreaker in order to maintain international peace and security.

"The law of neutrality is applicable only in conflicts between states, and not in purely internal conflicts (e.g. civil wars)." That just about sums up what Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles said in 1861.

When the war was almost over, the U.S. Government essentially admitted its diplomatic error and corrected it by announcing a closing of the ports -- on April 11, 1865.

At the time of this proclamation, Secretary of the Navy Gideon Welles said:

"This was a step which I had earnestly pressed at the beginning of the rebellion, as a domestic measure, and more legitimate than a blockade, which was international, and an admission that we were two nations."

[fortheDeclaration]

Hey Nolu, stop beating a dead horse.

The wrong word was used 'blockade' but it did not help the Confederates gain formal recognition as a nation by the major powers.

[4CJ]

Well, hello Calhoun!

Thank you. I take that as a compliment.

My ultimate allegiance is to the city of Sugar Land. I have never regarded Texas or the United States as having any ultimate authority over me....

I derive my US citizenship by virtue of my status as a citizen of the sovereign state of Georgia. God is my ultimate sovereign, and no act of any state can abdicate that allegiance.

'When the states threw off their allegiance on Great Britain, they became independent of her and each other. They united and confederated for mutual defence, and this was done on principles of perfect reciprocity -- They will now again meet on the same ground. But when a dissolution takes place, our original rights and sovereignties are resumed.' - Luther Martin, 19 Jun 1787

[fortheDeclaration]

Well, hello Calhoun! Thank you. I take that as a compliment.

Well, then do not discuss individual rights, since Calhoun rejected them.

I derive my US citizenship by virtue of my status as a citizen of the sovereign state of Georgia

Really?

I thought it was because you were born in the United States

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside

[4CJ]

Really? I thought it was because you were born in the United States

How would you know if I were born in the US or not? Believe it or not, the states existed PRIOR to the federal government, and no state divested itself of sovereignty over it's citizens. Justice Gray, in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649, (1898), stated, 'It [the 14th Amendment] is declaratory in form, and enabling and extending in effect. Its main purpose doubtless was, as has been often recognized by this court, to establish the citizenship of free negroes.' Basically, it prohibited citizenship discrimination.

[4CJ]

Besides, for legal ratification of the 14th, the majority of ex-Confederate state governments that "ratified" were not republican in form [representative], but under military occupation.

[fortheDeclaration]

Really? I thought it was because you were born in the United States How would you know if I were born in the US or not? Believe it or not, the states existed PRIOR to the federal government, and no state divested itself of sovereignty over it's citizens. Justice Gray, in U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649, (1898), stated, 'It [the 14th Amendment] is declaratory in form, and enabling and extending in effect. Its main purpose doubtless was, as has been often recognized by this court, to establish the citizenship of free negroes.' Basically, it prohibited citizenship discrimination.

If you are a citizen of Georgia, you are a citizen of the United States.

What you really need to do is simply renounce your U.S. citizenship and remain a citizen of the great state of Georgia.

Now that should be pretty simple to do!

You could have your own private secession celebration!

[M. Espinola]

"You could have your own private secession celebration!"

I would like a 'secession celebration' from Hillary! :)

[fortheDeclaration]

I would like a 'secession celebration' from Hillary! :)

I think most of the nation would celebrate that secession!

LOL!

[nolu chan]

[ftD] Hey Nolu, stop beating a dead horse. The wrong word was used 'blockade'...

Hey John, stop beating a dead horse. The wrong word was not used. The desired action was taken. The correct word was applied to the action taken.

You do remember the part about pirates don't you?

[freedumb2003]

"There's a fringe on that flag"

Is this an episode of "Law & Order"?

[4CJ]

If you are a citizen of Georgia, you are a citizen of the United States.

But few US citizens have the privledge of being a citizen of the sovereign state of Georgia.

Every man will possess a double Character, that of a Citizen of the US. & yt. of a Citizen of an individl. State--The national Legis. will apply to ye. former Charactr--it ought then to be elected or appointed by the Citizens of the US, and not by the Legislatures of the indivdl States; Because they are characters peculiarly of a state feature & partaking of the State Citizenship rather yn. of that of the US--The State Legislrs. have no interest in the Genl. Govt. but the Citizens of every State have an important interest--this Distinction points out the Difference which shd. govern us in the appointment of the Natl. Govt. - future US Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, signatory of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. 25 Jun 1787

What you really need to do is simply renounce your U.S. citizenship and remain a citizen of the great state of Georgia.

What you really need to do is simply renounce your U.S. citizenship ... and persude Mr Baldwin, Mr Moore and Mrs Streisand to join you.

The power to confer the right of State citizenship is just as exclusively with the several States as the power to confer the right of federal citizenship is with Congress. - President Andrew Johnson. Now tell me, are military governments 'republican'?

[M. Espinola]

In relation to so-called 'states rights'. I know you would not be in favour of the following:

I vividly recall Massachusetts Governor Michael 'Tax Happy' Dukakis actually forcing citizens of the 'People Republic of Taxachusetts' to pay the full Mass sales tax even if items were purchased in bordering sales tax free state of New Hampshire.

For instance lets say during the reign of King Dukakis you or I drove to New Hampshire and purchased a TV, cartoons of smokes and a very expensive stereo receiver. On the Governors orders his goons in the Mass state police would pull over cars with Mass license plates on their way back into the Peoples Republic from N.H. under false pretenses and then search the vehicles for 'taxable' merchandise.

People begged for federal intervention to stop this leftist police state practice. The situation was addressed in the courts and found unconstitutional. In the next election King Dukakis was defeated by the voters.

[Gianni]

Use of the word 'final solution'does not mean that that they had the same meaning used by the Nazi's.

We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sious, even to their extermination, men, women, and children. - W.T.

Care to explain the difference?

[4CJ]

People begged for federal intervention to stop this leftist police state practice. The situation was addressed in the courts and found unconstitutional. In the next election King Dukakis was defeated by the voters.

The state legislature and/or state courts could have intervened as well. As reprehensible as Dukakis is, the people of the state did elect him. It's not for the feds to micro manage the states.

[4CJ]

Care to explain the difference?

There's not one - Sherman [*SPIT*] was the Union Goebel/Himmler/Mendel.

[M. Espinola]

A combination of conservative radio talk-masters, state legislators, coupled with the courts were the combined effect which brought about a halt to the illegal practice, directed against Mass motorists, on the Mass-NH border.

[Wampus SC]

OH NO! Bozo has been desecrated!

Or maybe that's just the costume the high "priestesses" have to wear at the Temple of Abe the Conqueror....

[Wampus SC]

No, what I claimed was that the Conferderates never had formal recognition as a nation.

That a few minor nations reconized them as some did the Colonies does not constitute international recognition."

The modern version of this is: Bush can get 30-some nations onboard for the war in Iraq, but unless France and Germany approve, it doesn't count. It's still "unilateral".

International recognition by any nation is still international recognition.

[Wampus SC]

"All Hail Sherman [*SPIT*], beloved general of the North, and friend to Indians, blacks, and Southrons. </sarcasm>"

Just butting in to mention that my current motto is:
"Shermanolatry: America's homegrown version of holocaust denial.