VANITY - Gross or Net? If you tithe - on which do you tithe?

5/23/2003 | Frapster

[supercat]

For people who answer "gross", what about the income you earn which doesn't show up on your paystub because it goes to the "employer-paid" taxes? Should that money be included too?

[SanAntoneBlue]

Well put.. couldn't have said it better.

[Oberon]

[extended argument]

There's no need to convince me, candee. I'm well at ease with my decision on this matter. If I tithe out of my net, I'm letting the government get its share first, and paying God out of what's left. I've decided not to do that.

On the other hand, I haven't advised anyone else, either. Y'all do what your consciences dictate.

[Oberon]

Newsflash: If it wasn't for the Tanak, there would be no "new covenant". So before you throw it out, think about why most x-ian bible publishers put it in their anyway.

Amen, Tamar.

It's all about covenant... and the fact that I believe there is a "new" one by no means diminishes the "old" one.

[BabsC]

My father always gives 10% or 15% of his gross.
The IRS audits him all the time cause they always doubt his tithing. Of course, since my Dad is the most honest man on the planet they usually find money they owe him never anything he owes them.

[BabsC]

There is no "FREE" education. Ask a property owner.

[Ff--150]

It is a major reach to say this says anything about tithing in NT times

Shoot, man, I got one of those old Bibles that has Hebrews in the New Testament.

Heb. 7:8. And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Who is he that Paul or whomever is speaking of!?? Melchizedek? Abraham? Levi? They were alive when Paul or whomever wrote Hebrews???? The tense used is present, not past tense. Therefore, this author was not talking about the Melchizedek/Abram [Abraham] event in Gen.14 in this one verse.

So keep your tithes,cuz the blessings that should have come to you will come our way [Eccl. 2:26].

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

If we own a company that is grossing a certain amount do we tithe on the gross of that amount or the net (what we pay ourselves?)

The gross of your income which in this case would be the net of the income from the business.

[Frapster]

After further investigation and as a result of the discussion in this thread I have come to that conclusion as well. Thanks!

[Gil4]

Shoot, man, I got one of those old Bibles that has Hebrews in the New Testament.

Perhaps your Bible only has Heb 7:8, rather than having the whole book. My point in my previous post was that you were taking that verse (which I referenced) out of context. (Note - my sarcastic tone was done with a smile & without malice. I hope yours was the same.)

Who is he that Paul or whomever is speaking of!?? Melchizedek? Abraham? Levi? They were alive when Paul or whomever wrote Hebrews???? The tense used is present, not past tense.

Heb. 7:8. And here men that die receive tithes; (that is referring to the sons of Levi, the priests working in the temple, which was still in operation when the book of Hebrew was written (prior to AD 70, when the temple was destroyed.)) but there (in 7:1-4) he (Melchizedek) receiveth them (What verb tense is used here? Answer: NONE. Notice the italics in the KJV - it means the words were implied in the Greek (not actually there.) The literal reading is "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he,") of whom it is witnessed that he liveth (Melchizedek again - see 7:3).

Therefore, this author was not talking about the Melchizedek/Abram [Abraham] event in Gen.14 in this one verse.

Please read Hebrews 6:20 thru at least 7:17. This whole section is a comparison of the Levitical Priesthood to that of Mechizedek (through verse 10), and an explanation of how it relates to Christ (7:11-17)

[Ff--150]

OK keep your tithes, bro. bye.

[A. Patriot]

Christ is the total liberation from all aspects of the law.

I think he abolished the Jewish law which by following, provided salvation by works. But I don't think ALL law was abolished.

What about the 10 Commandments?

Is it now OK for this: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)

[3Lean]

I feel pretty safe painting with a broad brush here. Name a church that tells it's members to forgoe welfare, food stamps, public education, etc. because the church is providing it instead.
Most churches do some of this work, but all do much less than used to be the norm.

[4CJ]

Fundamental Baptists & many others argue GROSS. I wish I gave more to the church (and had it to give!). I simply pray that what I give will be used for His glory, and that circumstances change to allow more substantial support.

[tracer]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has a long-established, well-organized and scripturally-based system to help those in need to maintain their lives -- as opposed to "lifestyles" -- until they are able to get back on their feet through their own efforts and with the help of local Church leaders and members.

The progam is funded locally and almost entirely from members' monthly and voluntay "fast offerings," which represent, at a minimum, the cost of two or three meals foregone during a regular fast around the first Sunday of the month.

Do the math: $20 X 150 familes/month in each congregation ("ward") = $3,000 on average. This can be supplemented, if necessary, by funds from other of the 5 or 6 wards in a "stake." Any balance remaining at the end of the year is forwarded to the Church's General Welfare Fund in Salt Lake City.

Local funds rarely are depleted and routinely are used to assist those (Church members and non-members alike) afflicted by disasters and war in such diverse places as Florida, Guatemala, Kosovo, Afghanistan, African nations, and, currently, Iraq. All entirel without strings attached.

This program includes regional employment offices (open to non-LDS individuals and potential employers), training in the development and execution of job-hunting strategies, local "Bishop's storehouses," assistance with bills related to necessities of life, pro-active spiritual and temporal counseling, moral and emotional support, and many forms of help (offered on a voluntary and generally confidential/family-to-family basis) from individual Church members and their families.

Assistance is not considered to be a gift or a loan, and individuals receiving such provide labor, etc. in exchange for (but not necessarily in proportion to) that which is received.

The motto of this program -- which has been praised by US presidents, other elected leaders, clergymen of many other faiths, and many others -- is "Providing Assistance in the Lord's Way."

My family benefitted briefly from such assistance over twenty years ago when my employer unexpectedly (and fraudulently) filed for Ch. 11 bankruptcy protection, and we voluntarily and eagerly have "given back" both on an informal basis and through formal Church assignments ("callings") ever since. Interestingly, nobody other than our bishop and those working with him on a strictly confidential basis ever knew that we were receiving Church assistance. The protection of privacy and dignity are hallmarks of this process.

If every religious body in this country and the world were to adopt this inspired program, there likely would be very few poor and needy among the Lord's children....

[tracer]

BTW, we also tithe a full 10% of our gross income to fund the work of the Church around the world...

[3Lean]

But, what I asked was for a church that asks (tells) it's members to take a pass on government assistance. Is that the position of your denomination?
Many churches offer assistance to others throughout the world, but that has always been the case. What they are doing now is letting Uncle Sam take care of a part of their responsibility.
My opinion is unchanged. Churches do less now than they used to, and have allowed (even asked) the government to step in, in many cases with disastrous results. Who is more likely to get off welfare, someone receiving a check through the mail from a faceless government or someone who is receiving assistance (as you did) from a religious group who can monitor the situation?
Instead of pawning off responsibility to the government churches should be leading the charge to continue welfare reform.

[tracer]

"But, what I asked was for a church that asks (tells) it's members to take a pass on government assistance. Is that the position of your denomination?"

The answer to your question is a resounding "yes." But, as you would appear to agree, such is not the point you so rightly made.

I suggest that churches everywhere would experience a dramatic infusion of spiritual power and righteous pride of accompolishment if they were to encourage their medically able members to carry out a spiritual fast on at least a monthly basis and to donate to those in need the cost of the two or three meals foregone and therefore not purchased with money.

Such would require no sacrifice beyond that associated with fasting as commended to us all by the Lord, and the resultant blessings to all would be an amazement to everyone concerned....

[stranger and pilgrim]

"As for me and my house, we figure that the money the government takes is out of our control. We never had it and it's not our choice whether to give it to them or not.

Yes you do, you vote. "

That's a good one . . .