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Elizabeth Smart Thread, 9/26/02 to ???

Posted on 09/26/2002 12:34:48 AM PDT by stlnative

NEW THREAD - PING WHOM EVER YOU LIKE - I DON'T PING ANYMORE - SORRY


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: elizabethsmart
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To: freedox
I'm almost afraid to ask this, but......just what enormous impact does this have on the case?

Maybe you would like to enlighten us as to why a police officer would be sitting in a car in front of the Smart home minutes after the abduction of Elizabeth - a literal "crime of the century" in Utah - instead of assisting the other officer in searching the home, the grounds or the neighborhood.

901 posted on 10/01/2002 6:14:41 PM PDT by Jolly Green
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To: freedox
Smart haters

I was simply trying to describe an attitude that certain posters exhibit. Hate is a strong word but "Smart haters" rolls off the tongue easier than "People who won't give the Smarts a break" or "People who twist every Smart family statement into some kind of effort to cover a criminal act." I really don't think anyone on this thread is offended by the term "Smart hater". How would you describe the group that is suspicious of the Smart family? It's got to be snappy or nobody will use it.

902 posted on 10/01/2002 6:33:22 PM PDT by sandude
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To: sandude
Is there something wrong with being suspicious of the Smart family?

I'll look at anyone that might have a motive.

CrimeSolvers 101 ;)
903 posted on 10/01/2002 6:54:35 PM PDT by partialpressures
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To: partialpressures
I'll look at anyone that might have a motive.

From what we've seen the SLPD/FBI have not found a motive to implicate the family after almost 4 months of investigation.

904 posted on 10/01/2002 7:01:33 PM PDT by sandude
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To: sandude
From what we've seen the SLPD/FBI have not found a motive to implicate the family after almost 4 months of investigation.

Except to say that everyone is a suspect.

LE really hasn't found any "motive to implicate" anyone.

905 posted on 10/01/2002 7:04:22 PM PDT by varina davis
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To: partialpressures
Is there something wrong with being suspicious of the Smart family?

Absolutely not. LE would be remiss if it wasn't suspicious of everyone.

906 posted on 10/01/2002 7:05:29 PM PDT by varina davis
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To: Devil_Anse
BUT if Tom had never stepped in for that fairly short time, WOULD WE EVEN BE PAYING ATTENTION TO TOM? When he had stepped in, this led to his being on LKL, etc. He had a weird way of expressing himself. But if he had never had occasion to get in the middle of it, due to his stepping in for Ed, I don't think he'd have come to our notice any more than the other Smart brothers, who are mentioned less.

Really??...I guess you forgot about his inconclusive polygraph...

907 posted on 10/01/2002 7:15:57 PM PDT by Bella
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To: varina davis
Did you read post # 884??...lol
908 posted on 10/01/2002 7:17:33 PM PDT by Bella
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To: sandude
no motive found concerning ricci either, or edmunds.
909 posted on 10/01/2002 7:24:16 PM PDT by jandji
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To: sandude; Jolly Green
Thanks to both of you for your thoughtful responses. sandude, I disagree about the term "Smart haters" being inoffensive. It is offensive to me. Being suspicious and hating are two very different things. To call someone a "Smart hater" is to demean their thoughts and opinions by reducing them to mere hatefulness. As you know, I am one of those posters who has repeatedly questioned the behavior of the Smart family. It doesn't mean I "hate" them......it simply means that I believe they know more than they are saying, and are perhaps attempting to hide information that might be pertinent to the case. I am just looking for clues here......I am not looking to nail anyone to the wall because I "hate" them.

I think the "group mentality" that has developed on these threads has been very detrimental to all of us. There are a number of posters here who question the Smarts' behavior......that does not mean that I am in lockstep with them. Once again, to toss one person's thoughts and opinions into a generic classification of "Smart hater" or "Smart lover" is detrimental to what we are doing. If we're going to divide ourselves up into "Smart haters" and "Smart lovers," we might as well only have two individuals posting here.

Jolly, you insist upon "evidence" of the Smarts' possible involvement or complicity in Elizabeth's disappearance. The statements and behaviors of the major players in this saga ARE evidence to us armchair detectives. I think it's safe to say that most of us here aren't at our first rodeo.....we've all followed crime investigations before. Each of us looks for clues based upon our own past experience. Some of us tend to focus upon "hard evidence".....some of us lean more toward intuition and things that just don't seem to pass the "smell test." I'm sure the same can be said of the detectives who are working the case.

I can only speak for myself here. My questioning of the Smart family is based upon how I perceive their BEHAVIOR. It is not based upon a personal hatred of them, jealousy over their social status or distaste for their religious beliefs. As sandude stated long ago, this case is a darn good mystery......I think that choosing up sides into "Smart haters" vs. "Smart lovers" does it a great injustice.

910 posted on 10/01/2002 7:38:49 PM PDT by freedox
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To: Bella
or tom's claim that he recieved a phone call from ed at 3:30am, printed in the deseret news, where tom is a longtime fixture. only to be dressed down by sister cynthia, who basically called him a moron.
911 posted on 10/01/2002 7:44:38 PM PDT by jandji
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To: Jolly Green
"Maybe you would like to enlighten us as to why a police officer would be sitting in a car in front of the Smart home minutes after the abduction of Elizabeth - a literal "crime of the century" in Utah - instead of assisting the other officer in searching the home, the grounds or the neighborhood."

Jolly, you have stated that this "police officer" was most likely a canine officer. Are we still working from this premise? If so, then I would say that he was still in the car because his partner (the one with thumbs) was inside the house, taking down pertinent information before proceeding.

If the officer sitting in the car was a human officer, then I would say that he was sitting there because the police didn't perceive this as an emergency. If that was the case, it brings me back to what I have long suspected......that there was no initial report of an "armed gunman."

The policeman in the car was never my issue......it was yours. Nevertheless, I have done the best I can with it. If further "enlightenment" is needed, it will have to come from you.

912 posted on 10/01/2002 7:48:14 PM PDT by freedox
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To: jandji
Tom also stated that there was police crime scene tape around the property when he arrived.....a statement that seems to contradict the SLCPD claims that the crime scene remained unsealed for 3 hours after their arrival. Also, Tom's account of the discovery of the cut screen in the kitchen seems to suggest that it occurred after he returned from a "family meeting" at Charles Smart's house. Ed's account suggests that the cut screen was discovered by Lois prior to the 911 call.
913 posted on 10/01/2002 7:59:14 PM PDT by freedox
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To: jandji
":tom's claim that he recieved a phone call from ed at 3:30am"

that in itself is curious, since we now finally have Ed saying it was exactly 3:58 when MK came into the bedroom and it was 4:01 when they called the cops...

look, its not like any of this adds up to much except it does show a certain attitude about the facts, like throw out some numbers there that stick....

The family should have had only one spokesman the entire time....they have given conflicting reports and its no wonder people are suspicious

914 posted on 10/01/2002 8:12:50 PM PDT by cherry
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To: sandude; partialpressures
"From what we've seen the SLPD/FBI have not found a motive to implicate the family after almost 4 months of investigation."

Since Devil_Anse isn't here to entertain us with multiple posts tonight (and respond to posts not addressed to her) I'll play the part......LOL!!

sandude, where you and I have always parted company is over the issue of what is being made public in this case. You tend to take LE's public statements at face value......I suspect that they are largely disinformation, intended to lure and/or placate their suspect.

I read an interesting story today. A hitman was hired to break a woman's legs. Rather than carrying out the hit, the hitman went to the authorities and told them of the plan. The FBI and the local police collaborated to stage a "fake hit" on the woman......they did this in order to lure their suspect. My point is this......LE can and will go to great lengths to hide the TRUTH about an investigation, if it is in the best interest of the case.

915 posted on 10/01/2002 8:19:37 PM PDT by freedox
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To: Jolly Green
No, I don't believe drivel. Drivel is your territory.
916 posted on 10/01/2002 9:08:15 PM PDT by lakey
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To: Jolly Green; Devil_Anse; Sherlock; sandude
I believe it was Devil who spoke of one officer arriving at the Smart home in a patrol car (used to call them radio cars) in the early morning hours of June 5th.

I don't know how SLC sets up their graveyard crews, but in most metropolitan areas, two officers are assigned to a car after dark...that's to keep each other awake. :) Their shift would not have ended until around 7 a.m.

917 posted on 10/01/2002 9:15:15 PM PDT by lakey
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To: cherry
From the last Tribune article, the thing that struck me was the way Ed gave a description of his actions, times, etc. He may have said all of this before and I haven't read or heard it. But if he hasn't described that night in interviews, I wonder why he waited so long?
918 posted on 10/01/2002 9:28:32 PM PDT by lakey
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To: cherry; All
Re: Vast LDS Conspiracy: "Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life." I don't know if you've seen The Manchurian Candidate, but in an early scene the man played by Frank Sinatra says this about the Lawrence Harvey character (the villain); a bit later another member of his platoon says the very same thing to his wife, word for word. The point is they've both been "brainwashed". The "contradictions" some have noted (I should call them "discrepancies") are what you'd expect among people who are not part of a conspiracy and have not got their story straight.

Re: Ed Smart's hospital stay: A while ago a friend of mine had a terribly bad scare concerning his child. It turned out okay, but he had to run around doing stuff, phoning people, etc., and I suppose didn't have time to soak it all in. A few weeks later he woke up one morning to find he couldn't stand up without falling over, because his sense of equilibrium was shot. He had no other symptoms but he would get completely dizzy if he moved his head the least bit. This went on for 24 hours and then he was fine. It turned out to be an anxiety attack. It can take other forms though.

Re: Other officer: I imagine the other officer in the patrol car was busy on the computer checking hospitals, juveniles picked up, other disturbances, checking up on the Smarts. I notice here whenever the police talk to anybody they ask for name and date of birth and then discreetly go back to the patrol car to do some checking.

919 posted on 10/01/2002 10:50:47 PM PDT by anatolfz
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To: cherry
it shows that ed keeps trying to cover things he shouldn't have to lie about. just like o.j., or fuhrman. don't lie about stuff that can be proven.
920 posted on 10/01/2002 11:44:33 PM PDT by jandji
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