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Elizabeth Smart thread, August 31-September 7, 2002

Posted on 08/31/2002 10:26:34 AM PDT by IamHD

My prayers go out to the Ricci family during this time. RR was sent up the river and used as a scape-goat. No evidence, whatsoever, linking him to the disappearance of Elizabeth.

May he rest in peace.


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To: Utah Girl
Again, I will cut the Smarts a lot of slack. They've lost a daughter, and now it has become obvious that they are dropping nuggets of information out there to keep interest.

UG, yes, they've lost a daughter. When you read this, did it immediately come to you that this was a good decision, and a thought out one that would bring merit? Honestly?

This releasing a sketch is going to be less credibility to him than benefit. He is doing that, UG, not people on a message board or across the clothes line. (Do people still talk over the clothes line? )

It is things like this, that hinder this case. Sorry to say that, cause I want Mr. Smart and his family to help the case. This didn't do it., and I think you know that.

521 posted on 09/03/2002 1:34:05 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: FR_addict
Perhaps the SLPD didn't deem credible the report, had the sketch, and told the Smarts that they could release it if they wanted to. Or maybe the Smarts paid a sketch artist to do the sketch from those people who saw the guy digging the hole. I do not know, but I don't think what the SMarts are doing is illegal, just searching for their abducted daughter.
522 posted on 09/03/2002 1:36:38 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
Thanks for posting this story, Utah Girl. I have to say, it strikes me as an incredibly odd thing that Ed Smart is doing right now. This man was reportedly spotted digging a hole almost 3 months ago, it was checked out and cleared by the police, and Ed comes out TODAY with a sketch of the man? If this story or the accompanying sketch has ANY significance whatsoever, why was it not released 3 months ago when it occurred? Ed's behavior has raised my eyebrows more than once in this case.....but this one is a topper.
523 posted on 09/03/2002 1:37:54 PM PDT by freedox
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To: Neenah
I don't understand how this hinders the case.
524 posted on 09/03/2002 1:38:02 PM PDT by cookiedough
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To: Neenah
Sorry, you can't read my mind. I do think it might help, anything is worth a try at this point in time. The area around here is so rugged, IF Elizabeth is deceased, there are millions of places that her body could be buried. So no, sorry, if they have info and a credible story, and there are volunteers willing to go look, then go for it. What do you think the Smarts should be doing?
525 posted on 09/03/2002 1:38:50 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: FR_addict
"Who did the sketch?"

According to the article, the sketch was done by one of the hikers......apparently it is not an "official" sketch.

526 posted on 09/03/2002 1:43:53 PM PDT by freedox
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To: cookiedough
I don't understand how this hinders the case.

Bad choice of words on my part I guess.

I think it hinders the credibility of this case being worthy of press. It is not a credible thing to do by Mr. Smart, not the police. This sketch was 3 months old, and was cleared. I am sure the PD didn't tell Ed that he should release it., or not release it.

I think Mr. Smart released it on his own., and it is not beneficial. Oh and incidentally you said....

Hole big enough to roast a pig is a hole big enough to bury a girl.

True...but if you check the report on it, you will find they didn't find a pig or a girl in the rectangular hole.

527 posted on 09/03/2002 1:47:48 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Utah Girl
but I don't think what the SMarts are doing is illegal, just searching for their abducted daughter.

Of course it is not illegal, but the Smarts continue to release tidbits without any followup information, such as when the sketch was done, who did it and why aren't the police releasing it. Whenever he gets questioned about things, he says he can't answer. Yet he keeps bringing out new stuff all the time that may have helped if released earlier.

We can conjecture what Ed's reason is and why the police are not releasing it, but it would be a lot better if Ed and the police would tell us why it is just now being released.

If Moul saw a blue van back on the 8th, and these people saw a blue van why is this fact just coming out now? The public could have been keeping an eye out for the blue van. The police showed other vehicles to obtain information from the public.

528 posted on 09/03/2002 1:54:23 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: Neenah
Rather than hindering the press, this information gave the press something else to write about. Any tidbit of info about this case seems to sell papers, no matter how contrived.

From the Smarts' viewpoint, anything which keeps the case in the public eye is good. Also, LE has followed up on all the credible leads, so there's nothing left to do but grasp at straws like the empty hole. If my child were missing, that's exactly what I would do, because I couldn't bear to leave any stone unturned.

529 posted on 09/03/2002 1:59:00 PM PDT by cookiedough
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To: FR_addict
I agree. But desperation makes people do things they wouldn't normally do. And again, I will give the Smarts a lot of slack for their behavior. I don't know why the police didn't release the info sooner, or the Smarts. If the perp is ever found and/or Elizabeth, the books and the trial should be very interesting.
530 posted on 09/03/2002 1:59:40 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: cookiedough
Thanks cookiedough, for saying what I couldn't articulate. I'm not a parent, but if a child of mine went missing, I'd never rest and I would do almost anything to find that child. And that is what the Smarts are doing. It is very sad, and my heart aches for them.
531 posted on 09/03/2002 2:00:53 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
What do you think the Smarts should be doing?

I think Mr. Smart should let the Law handle this. I understand his frustration, believe me, I do..but if we can't trust those trained in this..the PD, FBI, and PI's, then we become a vigilante society.

I commend him for going on t.v., but UG, he has to stop making these mistakes. He is loosing credibility. Soon he will not be getting air time. That is sad. And sad to say, people's attention span wanes. He should go to the press when there is something new.Putting this latest thing out in the press yesterday, shows desperation not strength. But I guess he has to do what he feels is right. He has that right by all means.

532 posted on 09/03/2002 2:01:15 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Neenah
Vigilante? Huh? Believe me, if the perp is ever found, he will be turned over to the police and dealt with by them and the justice system.

Just out of curiosity, do you agree with the decision the Levys made to hire outside detectives to go through the park where Chandra's bones were found? And additional evidence was found by those detectives, that was entirely missed by the police?

533 posted on 09/03/2002 2:03:08 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: freedox
Thanks you are right. I went back and read the article closer. I still don't know if the hiker did the sketch at the time of the incident or not and why the police dismissed it. Did they show the sketch to Moul? If the hikers thought he was supicious enough to make a sketch, what is the person's height, approximate age, color of hair, etc.

Sounds fishy to me.
534 posted on 09/03/2002 2:03:38 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: Utah Girl
Sorry, you can't read my mind.

Awe come on UG, I am not that kind of person who wants to read your mind. I like discussing things with you. Dont resort to saying that, I think more of you than that statement.

535 posted on 09/03/2002 2:03:52 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Neenah
All I meant was that your statement about what I was thinking and my response to your question of When you read this, did it immediately come to you that this was a good decision, and a thought out one that would bring merit? Honestly?

And honestly, I gave my answer. Yes, I do think the Smarts are grasping at straws, but who knows, perhaps one of those straws may turn out to be the answer. And the sad part is that if these are the types of leads that the police have, I'm afraid Elizabeth is gone for forever, and this case won't ever be solved. But how can they give up? I've heard via the grapevine (friend of a friend of a friend) that the SLPD has very few resources on the case now.

536 posted on 09/03/2002 2:07:45 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: cookiedough
From the Smarts' viewpoint, anything which keeps the case in the public eye is good. Also, LE has followed up on all the credible leads, so there's nothing left to do but grasp at straws like the empty hole. If my child were missing, that's exactly what I would do, because I couldn't bear to leave any stone unturned.

cookiedough, anything which keeps the case in the public eye is not good. There are people in Utah that have given and given. They gave with love in their hearts for this family, for Elizabeth.

When you give like that, you want to search or hand out flyers or the mirade of things they have done for credible reasons. This sketch released at this press conference which Mr. Smart called for, is doing exactly what you said..KEEPING ANYTHING in the press.

This isn't even ANYTHING..it is just another thing that was dismissed by the PD, FBI...and yet he still does it. How long do you think the people who have given their time, and tears, will continue? If the police went and checked out this hole in June,and found nothing, nor did they pursue it, would you put your hiking boots on this Sat. and go look at it again?

537 posted on 09/03/2002 2:12:49 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Neenah
....and one more thing...God forbid it ever happens to you that your child would be taken...but I give you more credit than to believe you would do these kind of things.

It is easy to say what you would do , until you have to do it, until you are in that posititon. I am going to believe that you would do everything in a wonderful smart way, to help all those helping you find your child.

538 posted on 09/03/2002 2:15:19 PM PDT by Neenah
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To: Iwo Jima
Ahem, CoIn a routine autopsy or (during life) a routine blood blood test, will they do a toxicology screen that would detect the presence of warfarin? Warfarin would definitely mean murder, as there is no reason to give rat poison to a human.

The human equivalent of warfarin is Heparin. Lots of people are on Heparin as a blood thinner. Its intravenous form is Coumadin, but it's only given that way in hospitals. Heparin can be dangerous to people who have weak arteries or coagulation problems. But no one could ever know beforehand that anyone has a weakened artery that is subject to hemorrhage. That's why cerebral hemorrhages are so deadly and strike without warning.

Bottom line is that I don't think that Ricci was murdered because no one would know that giving him Heparin could be fatal to him. And I know of no other way to intentionally bring on a cerebral hemmorhage. I t would of course be interesting to know if blood tests showed signs of Heparin. And of course, the presence of warfarin could mean nothing but murder.



If Ricci died of a warfarin or heparin overdose he would have been bleeding from every orifice or every skin break... and this would have been certainly reported.
Coumadin is taken orally.... warfarin is the generic name for coumadin. Heparin is given subcutaneously or intravenously while the Coumadin levels get to therapeutic (actually it is the PT - prothrombin time - that needs to get to therapeutic levels).

There is no one who is able to convince me (at this point) that anything was done to Ricci to get him to have a brain stem bleed.

Whenigettime, RN
539 posted on 09/03/2002 2:28:24 PM PDT by whenigettime
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To: Neenah
You make an excellent point, Neenah. By dragging out 3 month old "leads" that have already been checked out and dismissed by the police, the Smarts run the risk of alienating those who are still willing to help. The volunteers in this case want to know that what they are doing is useful. IMO, stories like this are apt to make many of them wonder about the directions they are being asked to take in their continued searches.

As an aside, one thing I think might be useful in this case would be sketches of Elizabeth with her appearance altered......short hair, dark hair, curly hair, make-up, etc. If Elizabeth is still out there, she can't live in seclusion forever. When and if she resurfaces, I seriously doubt that she will still resemble the pictures that we have seen.

540 posted on 09/03/2002 2:29:43 PM PDT by freedox
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