Elizabeth Smart thread, August 31-September 7, 2002

[IamHD]

My prayers go out to the Ricci family during this time. RR was sent up the river and used as a scape-goat. No evidence, whatsoever, linking him to the disappearance of Elizabeth.

May he rest in peace.

[Illbay]

This was posted MONTHS ago. You're simply regurgitating it, to stir up more trouble.

You're too unsophisticated to be clever.

[Tazlo]

Doctors do not know what caused Ricci's hemorrhage, Skalabrin said, but it was not an aneurysm. Common causes include a small malformation in blood vessels or a weakening of blood vessels stemming from long-term high blood pressure.

No malformation was found in Ricci's case, Skalabrin said. While Ricci previously took blood-pressure medication, his blood pressure was normal when he received a physical exam upon entering the prison in June. Although staffers continued to monitor it, he was judged not to need medication, Ford said.

In addition, there would probably have been physical signs that Ricci's body was affected by years of high blood pressure, Skalabrin said, and he reported no such symptoms. An autopsy is planned.

I still say--look for a big dose of warfarin (rat poison), which is known to cause brain hemorrhages. See http://www.warfarinfo.com/rat-poison.htm

[FR_addict]

There is a syndrome where women often become enthralled with bad guys such as Ricci, write letters to them, and some even marry them.

This isn't what is going on here. I can't see why you are so enthralled with Ed Smart. From day one, he came across as someone who was hiding something.

And I don't dislike him, if he is innocent, I will assume he is just a flake. However, if my instinct turns out to be right, then I will dislike him. I dislike people who hide behind their religion to lie. He should be more forthcoming. He wouldn't even give any description of the abductor in the first interview I saw of him. (No cap, clothing, etc. The reporter had to pry it out of him, what race the abductor was.)

Other than the above, he reminds me of the Church members that came to the defense of the man who molested my child. The man must be innocent because he is such a fine upstanding Church member. I just don't hold with anyone getting a free pass because they are a Church member.

Do I think Ed Smart kidnapped his own child, NO! But I do think he is holding back vital information as to who may have done this and that he is somehow involved with the person.

There was some reason the police dismissed Edmunds so quickly. This was a man sleeping in his car close the Smart residence, supposedly went to one of the meetings for Elizabeth, removed his license plates, and like Ricci had a criminal record and the police say he isn't a suspect anymore. Why! Did he know Ed Smart? In what capacity? Why did he go to the meetings on Elizabeth? Why did he pick that particular neighborhood to camp out? what is his alibi for the time frame of the kidnapping. Etc.

[sandude]

That WAS weird. Like if you saw a dead body, but it didn't have the right hair, you wouldn't sound an alert. You'd just move on: No Liz here....

That portion of his statment was in hopes that she may still be alive.

[sandude]

Cynthia S. Owens said the reason they were offering the $3k rewards was because of the information about the guy across the street from the mechanic's shop.

I didn't see the news conference so I'm at a disadvantage here. I do think that the information about this guys vehicle possibly being a blue van is new though. There is also the possibility that after Richards death that LE shared some additional information with the Smarts about the case.

Now we're finding out that there was a chair under the infamous window? Why was this never revealed before? The police have never said how the perp got into the home.

There is so much that hasn't been revealed in this case. It is obvious that the Smarts have been told by LE no to discuss what they know with the press. They probably got clearance from LE to release this but it could be that they are frustrated with the pace of the investigation and are trying to do what they can to pick up the pace.

It's unfathomable to think that someone would be afraid of Ricci while he sits in prison. According to your logic, Ricci was going to spill info about the accomplice - but obviously, he didn't do that or someone else would now be in police custody. So it follows that an unknown, unnamed perp is going to provide info that leads cops right back to himself? Geez, what world do you live in?

I live in a world dominated by logic and reason, not emotion. Do you agree that the accomplice may have been nervous about Rick giving him up? Now that Rick is dead this guy can say whatever he wants and nobody can refute him. Let me give you an example of the BS this guy could use.

"I picked up Rick from Moul's on the 8th but I was afraid to come forward because I'm afraid of him. I guess I don't have to be now. I think you should check out our old fishing spot. He may have gone there that day, he wouldn't tell me though. He was really nervous. Will I get the reward if you find something?"

The real truth would be that this guy was in it up to his neck. Of course Rick would have known all of the details and could have shown LE that his friend was guilty as well.

Could it be that cops are zeroing in on a family member and all this sudden airtime is designed to deflect any suspicion from them?

Do you think that the Smart family would cover something up because it would be embarrassing? You act like their some kind of mafia group. I'm going to take a guess here. You don't have any children do you? If you ever have a family you might look at this differently.

[sandude]

Leave Dubya out of this - he's the only untainted one out of the lot you mentioned.

This really says it all S-G. The group that I mentioned was the SLPD, FBI, Utah State Govt., and the Mormon Church. I have seen nothing to implicate any of these bodies in this crime. Your entire premise in this and other posts is based on your distrust of these groups. Your distrust is without foundation in this case. You might be gorgeous but that tin foil hat your wearing does nothing for you except make you look foolish.

[sandude]

It's obviously too difficult for you to grasp that there are many many other people who just don't buy into the story du jour.

There are many other forums out there where people are discussing this case. Some of them have agenda's that they are pursuing and others don't. I come to the FreeRepublic because of it's quality of thought. There are many posters here who look at things objectively and make comments that are based on reason and not bias. You and Bella are compelled to show us that we are alone over here. That everyone else thinks Ricci is a saint who has been unfairly punished. I submit to you the following. Those people who post in those other groups are never challenged. They can say any ridiculous thing that they want and all they get back is praise for their intellect. Anyone who goes against the grain is dismissed as a disruptor, a fiend, lower than the lowest.

I'll stop buying into the story du jour when something comes along to show that it is not correct. That may happen any day now the Richard is dead. Then again, the RICCI IS IT GANG might have more ammunition to back our position. At least our position is supported by some circumstantial evidence. Before accepting a position, try seeing if there is any foundation for it. It really is easy to do.

[Bella]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405027869,00.html?

Sunday, September 1, 2002

Smarts seeking new leads
They believe clues may surface in wake of Ricci's death
By Pat Reavy
Deseret News staff writer

The family of Elizabeth Smart says it still has faith the mystery surrounding Elizabeth's kidnapping will be solved. And whatever information Richard Ricci took to the grave with him will not stop the investigation.

Cynthia Smart Owens, Elizabeth's aunt, spoke on behalf of the Smart family Saturday. Saying the case is now in God's hands, Owens said the family has great faith that someone with information will step forward now that Ricci is gone.

"We know other people do have some of these answers," Owens said.

Specifically, the Smarts want to know who picked up Ricci June 8 from Neth's Auto Repair after he dropped off his white Jeep Cherokee. And they want to talk to anyone with information surrounding an apparent July 24 break-in attempt at the home of Jeannie and Steve Wright. Elizabeth's mother, Lois Smart, is Jeannie's sister.

Ed Smart, Elizabeth's father, announced a $3,000 reward Friday for anyone with answers to those two questions.

Ricci, 48, was pulled off life support Friday night at University Hospital and pronounced dead at 7:28 p.m. He never regained consciousness after suffering a massive brain hemorrhage Tuesday while in his cell at the Utah State Prison. Ricci's body was taken to the Utah State Medical Examiner's Office Friday night for an autopsy. Neither Department of Corrections spokesman Jack Ford nor Ricci family spokeswoman Nancy Pomeroy knew when the autopsy would be completed or when the results would be released.

Pomeroy said Angela Ricci, Richard's wife, would at some point address the media regarding her husband's death. Saturday however, Angela Ricci was deeply grieving and asked that her privacy be respected, Pomeroy said.

Cynthia Smart Owens says Richard Ricci's previous crimes and Elizabeth's abduction share similarities.

Angela Ricci did say through her spokeswoman that despite her husband's criminal history, she wants others to know that there is a different side to him that the public didn't see.

Through Pomeroy, Angela Ricci said her husband nursed her back to health after she was injured in a severe traffic accident two years ago. She also said her husband loved to cook and would always cook extra for visiting LDS missionaries or her parents. He was a soft-spoken person with a good sense of humor, she said.

The Smart family issued a statement Saturday expressing their "heartfelt condolences" to Angela Ricci.

With Ricci's passing, a number of outstanding questions surrounding his involvement in the kidnapping remain. Since his arrest on an unrelated parole violation June 14, Ricci denied having any involvement in Elizabeth Smart's abduction. But Owens said it's hard to ignore Ricci's past history and the striking similarities his previous crimes had to Elizabeth's kidnapping.

Ricci was charged with theft and burglary for stealing items from the Smart's house and another house. In the second burglary, Ricci was accused in 3rd District Court of going into a bedroom where someone was sleeping and stealing items out of the room.

"We don't know," Owens said when asked if the Smart family thinks Ricci was for sure involved in the abduction. "But it's so striking, the similarities."

The Smarts' suspicions are also raised by the fact police believe Ricci lied to them about where he was the night of the kidnapping. If Ricci is innocent, why didn't he try to clear himself when he had the chance? asked Owens.

Based on the belief Ricci did not act alone, the family remains confident the case has not hit a permanent road block.

"There is so much evidence that suggests someone else was involved," Owens said. "There is a great deal of hope. We remain optimistic."

While not revealing names, Owens said she knew police had a "short list" of specific people under investigation.

Salt Lake police concurred Friday the investigation "still had breath" and Ricci was just one of a number of people being looked at. They concede however, that Ricci's death will have a big impact on the case.

Meanwhile, between 40 and 50 people on ATVs and horses Saturday searched for signs of Elizabeth in the Fairview Canyon area in Manti after two hikers reported suspicious activity in the area.

Ed and Lois Smart were away this weekend spending quiet time with each other, Owens said. E-mail: preavy@desnews.com

[Iwo Jima]

In a routine autopsy or (during life) a routine blood blood test, will they do a toxicology screen that would detect the presence of warfarin? Warfarin would definitely mean murder, as there is no reason to give rat poison to a human.

The human equivalent of warfarin is Heparin. Lots of people are on Heparin as a blood thinner. Its intravenous form is Coumadin, but it's only given that way in hospitals. Heparin can be dangerous to people who have weak arteries or coagulation problems. But no one could ever know beforehand that anyone has a weakened artery that is subject to hemorrhage. That's why cerebral hemorrhages are so deadly and strike without warning.

Bottom line is that I don't think that Ricci was murdered because no one would know that giving him Heparin could be fatal to him. And I know of no other way to intentionally bring on a cerebral hemmorhage. I t would of course be interesting to know if blood tests showed signs of Heparin. And of course, the presence of warfarin could mean nothing but murder.

[sandude]

But something stinks here and if you can't smell it, that's something you'll have to remedy, not me.

I'm catching a whiff of that stench myself. Only the craps on somebody else's shoe. How somebody could trash this family right now is beyond me. Wait until there is some evidence first. It might never come you know. I'm not asking you to like them, but you should realize the tremendous loss that they have in their lives. How can you doubt the love that they have for Elizabeth? If they are manipulating the press then I hope that they write a how to book for other's who find themselves in this kind of a situation in the future. There are still volunteers going out each weekend looking for her. After three months, that is amazing. I give this family a lot of credit for their tenacity and willingness to do whatever is needed.

[freedox]

"Anyone who goes against the grain is dismissed as a disruptor, a fiend, lower than the lowest."

That certainly has a familiar ring to it. How ya doin' this morning, sandude?

[IamHD]

There is a syndrome where women often become enthralled with bad guys such as Ricci, write letters to them, and some even marry them."

I'm well aware that there are some woman that do this, including attorneys and sometimes, even women guards, but I do not do that! I'm willing to, at the very least, wait for proof positive that RR did this. Why is that so hard to understand?

I fully believe in the death penalty, too!

[freedox]

"I doubt many will show other than family members, police officers, and bella & varina."

You posted this on yesterday's thread, referring to Ricci's funeral. My husband and I are currently RVing in a nearby state, and he actually offered to drive me to SLC for a bit of "funeral sightseeing"......LOL!! I declined the offer, but I thought you might find it amusing......

[IamHD]

This is trivial, but, I have always spelled *smoky* without an e. FR has it spelled with an e.

And yes, this thread will move to the backroom next week if I'm allowed to. :)

[freedox]

"I'm willing to, at the very least, wait for proof positive that RR did this. Why is that so hard to understand?"

I don't think this is hard at all for reasonable people to understand. Going overboard and pinning the label "Ricci lover" on those who continue to have doubts about his involvement is nothing more than a childish tactic......but of course you already knew that.

[Utah Girl]

Let's see, Ed has five brothers and sisters, and they are all married. That is at least 12 cars (car for dad to go to work in, and probably a van for mom and the kids, and oh yeah, the little car that Ed used to haul Elizabeth and MK and the harps back and forth in...), plus misc cars between the teenage kids. Sorry, I'd have to stop and think about whose car I had ever ridden in too. And if I couldn't remember, I'd say so.

[sandude]

How ya doin' this morning, sandude?

I'm doing fine thank you. I'm at work so I'll be off the thread for awhile. I hope everyone behaves while I'm gone. LOL! Where are you RVing?

[Utah Girl]

The only problem is how can the family guarantee any airtime for the attention? And has anyone thought that perhaps the chair underneath the window was a diversionary tactic, the perp thought he could place the chair there, cut the window screen, and then waltz into the house with a key, burglarize, and then waltz out? And contrary to many people's suspicions on the boards, many of us Utahns would like to see the case resolved, let the chips fall where they may. If it is a family member (and I do not think it is), then so be it. Let's get on with things, and bring the perp(s) to justice. But then we'd all have to get lives, until the next mysterious abduction in this nation...

[Bella]

Only you would say something like that.