Judge Mudd Refuses Sequester Plea: Westerfield Jury Verdict In Sep? (Aug. 16th Verdict Watch)

Union Trib ^ | August 15, 2002 | Jeff Dillion/Steve Perez

[FresnoDA]

Judge denies defense motion to sequester jury

By Jeff Dillon and Steve Perez
SIGNONSANDIEGO

August 15, 2002

Arguing that media coverage was creating a "lynch mob mentality" that could pressure jurors to return a guilty verdict, the defense attorney for David Westerfield today asked the judge yet again to sequester the jury.

While the jury completed its first week of deliberations without a verdict, Superior Court Judge William Mudd denied the request and a related motion to "pull the plug" on television and radio coverage of the courtroom proceedings, but agreed to set aside a private room for jurors to take breaks. Defense attorney Steven Feldman had argued that reports suggested jurors felt like they were under siege, unable to leave their deliberating room, go to lunch or walk home without being watched or followed.

"We have no assurance that they are not be intimidated ... by the presence of the media," Feldman told Mudd during a morning hearing. "We can think of only one fair resolution to that: Get the jury out of harm's way."

 

'Broccoli heads'

He cited an incident earlier in the week in which radio talk show hosts from KFI-AM 640 in Los Angeles broadcast from outside the courthouse, waving stalks of broccoli around and reportedly calling jurors "broccoli heads" for being unable to return a quick guilty verdict.

Westerfield, 50, could face the death penalty if convicted of kidnapping 7-year-old Danielle van Dam from her family's Sabre Springs home on Feb. 2 and killing her. Jurors are in their sixth day of deliberations.

Lead prosecutor Jeff Dusek disagreed with Feldman's interpretations of the jury's complaints.

"Whether or not any guilty verdict in this case would be based on a siege mentality or the meida I think is pure speculation and utterly false in this case," Dusek said.

What the jurors had complained about was being watched all the time, he said.

"That hardly equates to being under siege," he said.

 

Trust in the jury

Mudd dismissed most of Feldman's concerns, saying that the jurors had only asked a bailiff to keep reporters a little bit farther away, though an alternate juror reported that he or she had been followed to his car.

Media coverage has diminished since the jurors began deliberating, the judge said.

"The synopsis programs on the two local TV networks are not in place," he said. "The talking heads are doing nothing but speculating about what the jury may or may not be thinking."

Mudd said there were no signs that jurors were being harassed by the public, especially since their names and faces haven't been publicized.

"We've all sat here and picked this jury, know their makeup and know their dedication to this cause," Mudd said. "I would prefer to think that any verdict they make in this case would be based upon the evidence."

Sequestering the jury also wouldn't protect them from any public reaction to the verdict, Mudd said.

 

'The activities of a few'

"The tragedy is, the majority of the people in this courtroom are abiding by the court's orders and working very hard to insure they, meaning the media, do not cause something to occur that is going to cause a mistrial," Mudd said. "Not all of them feel that way as is very apparent with the activities of a few."

Mudd took aim at two radio program hosts from Los Angeles who he previously described as "idiots."

"I suppose it's entertainment out of LA. I hope it stays in LA," he said. "The shows those two gentlemen put on made the court incredulous as to what they were attempting to do."

Mudd also announced:

 

• The jury asked to review the recall testimony of prosecution witness Jennifer Shen, a criminalist with the San Diego Police Department.

  On July 9, Shen's testimony interrupted presentation of defense witnesses. Shen, a San Diego police criminalist, testified about re-examining a group of fibers she had collected from Westerfield's 4Runner in February.

  The orange acrylic fibers, found in various places inside the SUV, were the same color and fabric as a fiber tangled in a plastic necklace that Danielle was wearing when authorities found her body in a hollow off Dehesa Road, Shen testified at the time.

  All the fibers looked identical under a microscope and appeared to have the same chemical makeup when tested using infrared technology, she said.

  Shen said the fibers seem "most likely to have come from something that was very loosely knit," such as a sweater or blanket.

   

• Reporters will no longer be allowed to ask questions of the court's bailiff and clerk.

  "You folks are going to deal with my PR person. You're going to leave my bailiff and my clerk alone," Mudd told reporters in the courtroom. "One statement leads to 60 questions that they're not going to answer and neither am I."

  Mudd decided to turn the daily updates over to the court's public information officer after deciding that an informal system set up to have a bailiff or court clerk provide updates had failed.

  "There was a simple note that they started at 9, they left at 4 left you chomping on bit to get copies," He said. "You're welcome to them, they'll be available as soon as we gett the minute order."

  Reporters and members of the public will not be informed immediately about notes passed by the jury, Mudd said. The judge said he had procedure to follow, that includes notifying the attorneys involved in the case about the note and determining the appropriate response.

  "This is a capital case and you go by steps," Mudd said.

   

[wonders]

I think everyone on both sides agreed that animal activity did occur, but "when" it occurred appears to be in dispute.

The only one who seems to dispute "when" it occurred is Dusek. Haskell said it would be very odd for coyotes and such to wait for weeks to feed on a body, as they prefer fresh bodies. I think other expert witnesses testified to the same, but don't remember the specifics as I do with Haskell.

[Freedom2specul8]

Exactly one of my points!

"Two forensic witnesses testified that there was none in this case: the ground was dry beneath the body. I think (but I'm not positive) that those two witnesses were the ME and Faulkner (the first forensic entomologist who testified). Both went to the site where the body was recovered."

Are you saying that it's not abnormal?

[wonders]

Of course, JJ! You've solved the mystery and get the gold star!

[Freedom2specul8]

SO you think it IS strange--and would you agree that mummification could be an explanation at all?

"I don't get why there was no "body silhouette" at all. Mighty strange. Unless, of course the body was moved after leakage of the fluids formed in the first stages of putrefaction. Or the body had been frozen soon after death (killing off the endogenous bacteria which account for much of the process of putrefaction, particularly in the abdominal area). Both possibilities seem really "out there" though. "

Whoops, I left this part off

[BARLF]

You know paix I have chewed this chewed-up dog bed up one side and down another trying to see revelance. There must be some because Dusek had to remind PDvD to include it in his testimony at PH.

The color of that dog bed would be helpful.

[Freedom2specul8]

But he also agreed that it's not an exact science AND that there is a margin of error.

[Spunky]

CTV they were replaying some of BVD's testimony...

CTV has played Brenda's statement; "I wish they would have taken everthing else but her." over and over without ever commenting on it.

Very strange comment for no one to comment on.

[ican'tbelieveit]

If there is that much of a margin of error, and Westerfield is convicted in this case because of it, then I foresee many death row appeals where people are waiting to die on bug evidence.

We can't have it both ways. Dusek has relied on the bug expert in the past to put someone in prison, but now we need to say it isn't an exact science.

[BARLF]

LT Collins believed Danielle was placed there just after death. Carried there,and drug a short distance under the tree and underbrush. Testimomy on first day of PH, I believe.

[ican'tbelieveit]

If it is not acceptable for Westerfield to say "we" in his description of his weekend trip, then it is not acceptable for BVD to say "they."

[the Deejay]

"Very strange comment for no one to comment on."

Not for CTV hosts. They "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[Freedom2specul8]

I thought he and the ME agreed.. 4-6 weeks..am looking for exact quote..

[connectthedots]

So all we can assume is at least one juror may not believe the bugs of is being methodical.

I don't think this conclusion can be supported simply because at least one juror wants to look at particular evidence or rehear particular testimony. All one can really conclude is that at least one juror is being methodical. If its the CPA, its going to be a long, long, jury deliberation and the other jurors may get so frustrated with him he may need a restraining order against the otherts when thiscase is over.

Look at it this way, its a dead time of year for most CPAs and this guy may not have anything better to do; and most CPAs are anal to one degree or another, present company excepted. :-)

[iaf97]

Published on August 15, 2002
Legally Blonde
By Jill Underwood

Court TV's Beth Karas arrived in San Diego on May 28, the first day questions for potential jurors began in California vs. Westerfield. A graduate of Mount Holyoke College and Fordham Law School, Karas served eight years as an assistant district attorney in New York City before joining Court TV in 1994.

In a recent interview from the lobby of her downtown hotel, Karas responded to a reporter's questions. Her day, she said, "usually consists of me trying not to get up before 6:00 a.m. I go online, have breakfast in my room, and try and center myself. My workday usually goes until 7:30 or 8:00 at night."

Where are you from?

I'm originally from western Massachusetts, a little town called Deerfield, but I've lived half my life in New York City.

Have you been able to go home on weekends when court was out?

I usually stay here. I did go home the Fourth of July and when court was out for a week. Last weekend I managed to go home for a tune-up -- had a massage, a pedicure, my hair done. I left Saturday and came back on Sunday. I needed some party clothes because I have to be at a wedding in Milwaukee. If Westerfield is convicted and the penalty phase gets dragged out, it's gonna be tight, because I need to be at the wedding. I'm seated next to one of President Bush's cabinet members, and I have some things I need to discuss with him. It's an opportunity I don't want to miss.

Are you always this much on the go?

I've always worked this hard. I was born a type-A personality.

What do you do in your spare time?

By the weekend, I'm tired. I'm a big reader, I'll get a massage. I went to the track for the first time ever two weeks ago and had a blast, probably because I'm reading Sea Biscuit, and it inspired me. I went with Colin Murray, who is a former deputy district attorney under Paul Pfingst. He took me and taught me everything I needed to know. I won $10. He hit a $500 trifecta.

I've also done some sightseeing, but mostly I like finding good restaurants. I like Roppongi, Kemo Sabe, Indigo Grill, Chive, Taka for the sushi, and I really like Sammy's California Woodfired Pizza.

I have friends here. They took me to Sabre Springs and Dehesa Road. As a trial lawyer you'd do that. We said a prayer at the Dehesa Road site.

The first week I was here I had a dinner date, and I've since had several more.

You got a date the first week you were here? Do you know how many single, accomplished women there are in this town complaining they haven't dated in years and you come and lower the odds?

I was just sitting in a café and he approached me. But I know what you mean; it can be like that in New York too. I called my girlfriend in New York, who is 41 and single too, and said, "You've got to come to San Diego!"

What else do you do at night?

I try to be in bed by midnight. I'll watch the KUSI wrap-up of the trial. The local coverage here reminds me of the early days of Court TV. I think they're very good. That guy Kerry [Steigerwalt] is very good. The coverage is not opinionated. It does a community service because it's presented in a straightforward, unbiased way.

How did you get the job at Court TV?

I went into this job still a lawyer, not ready to give it up because I'd paid all this money to become a lawyer and I wanted to work at it. The way it happened was Steve Brill was in New York doing an article on the New York criminal justice system. My boss, the DA, chose me out of 500 people for Steve to follow. He asked me to lunch, and I said, 'What, are you crazy? We don't get a lunch!' He wrote the article through my eyes, and it became a cover story [for American Lawyer].

The next year he came up with the idea for Court TV. I tried for an anchor job and bombed. He suggested that maybe I could be a reporter. I didn't want to give up my job as an attorney completely because I wasn't sure if the network was going to make it. Some things happened in my life that by three years later, I was ready to try Court TV again. Steve was great because he had this plan to take lawyers and teach them journalism. It wasn't a hard transition for me because I was used to digging and investigating a case.

Which is more difficult: being a lawyer or a television reporter?

It's easier being a reporter. I don't get a headache like I did trying cases. I'm doing live TV, and I've been live during trials. My background as a trial lawyer and being called on in a courtroom was good training for what I do now because I already had the verbal skills and knew how to properly prepare for a case, which is like preparing for a story.

How hard was it to learn the other parts of being a television journalist: writing packages [news stories], learning to work with the thing that pokes out of your ear, picking the clothes, doing the makeup?

I mostly do live shots. About five a day, around 30 minutes with commercial breaks. I also do radio reports for the BBC. If there's a package that needs to be done, we have a producer. It's a skill I very much want to learn. I'll usually track it in the cab of our satellite truck. I started this in '94, and I look back and see that I don't look or sound the same at all, so that's probably good.

That thing in my ear is an IFB. Can you see it? I didn't know you could. You're not supposed to be able to. Anyway, I can hear the producer tell me when to wrap up, and it allows me to communicate with New York. Basically it's a phone line.

We have a wardrobe consultant who I go shopping with. My clothes are bought for me. We go about four times a year in New York and to showrooms before the clothes hit the floor. They know my image -- young and not too matronly. I probably get 15 suits a year. I usually do my own makeup, but right now our anchor is here so we get a little extra help.

How many people are here from Court TV? Do you socialize with other people from out of town?

At first it was basically just me and a producer, plus our crew. There are more of us here now than before because the trial is winding down, and we need them for verdict coverage. We absolutely mix with others here and from out of town. I struck up a friendship with Kristin Green and Alex Roth from the Union-Tribune.

How have your thoughts changed about San Diego since you first arrived?

Well, I'd been here once before. I was immediately impressed. Downtown was bigger than I remembered it being. I thought there were a lot of cranes, which is a good thing, because that means growth, right? I learned that it was too cold in June; I was in Florida last June, and that's what I expected it to be like. I was prepared for humidity. I learned about June gloom. Also that there are far worse places to spend the summer of 2002.

The climate is great, and San Diego has great people. Even though I'm often too tired to go to the gym, I love it here, though make no mistake: New York is the center of the universe for me.

What is it about this case that has captured so many people across the nation?

It's a 'Who done it?' For those who feel he did it, it's a how and why he did it. If he hid in the van Dams' house and stole her, it makes people think, 'If kids aren't safe in their own bedroom, where are they safe?' Plus the fact that he has no prior history, it's a real mystery. It's the same reason people enjoy shows like CSI and Forensic Files. They're popular because it's about solving the puzzle. People enjoy being detectives.

Is this case the reason we're hearing more about abductions than ever before?

I'm not sure there are more abductions. It may be the media focusing on these types of crimes. We might not be seeing this many stories had it not been in the news.

Defense attorney Steve Feldman apologized to the jury during his closing arguments for some of his mannerisms. Was that sincere or a ploy?

It's not unusual. He may have done it so as not to alienate the jury against his client. I think he probably knew he had to. Kind of like, 'Don't take out your feelings about me on my client.' You're gonna do what you have to do for your client, but I think he was probably sincere.

Did having a camera in the courtroom help or hurt this case?; and how does this case compare to other high-profile cases?

This is like the Jenny Jones case, the Michael Skakel case. We're accustomed to having cameras in the courtroom now on high-profile cases. What is different about this high-profile case is that it moved very quickly. The judge was particularly astute in this case because he kept it moving along. He did a very good job. The attorneys really can forget the cameras are there. They're focusing on the case, not on the court of public opinion.

What is going through the minds of the attorneys the night before closing arguments?

Preparation for closing arguments happens as soon as a case begins, sometimes even during jury selection. I believe, especially for [prosecutor] Jeff Dusek, that by August 6 he was more than ready for this.

The styles of prosecutor Jeff Dusek and defense attorney Steve Feldman are very different. Any thoughts on how the jury reacted to both?

Dusek is very thorough, very experienced. He showed emotion when he needed to. He's seeking the ultimate penalty of death, so he has to be somber and serious and he has been. Woody Clark too. They're both A team, some of the best I've ever seen. Steve Feldman and Robert Boyce are also excellent. Feldman has a razor-sharp mind, incredible wit. I think the jury responded to him when things fell on him during his presentation. I can't tell if the jury actually liked one more than the other.

Once the verdict is in, is there one thing you can point to that both sides should or shouldn't have done?

I've seen nothing during the cross-examination of witnesses. Maybe if Feldman hadn't opened the door about the amount of porn in Westerfield's house. But I don't think one thing will contribute to the rise and fall of this case. Dusek's bug expert M. Lee Goff wasn't as clear in his explanation as he could have been. Again, that's not going to affect the rise and fall of this case. This judge gives the lawyers lots of free range, and the stakes are high.

Was it a good idea not to put David Westerfield on the stand and to allow the van Dams in the courtroom?

David Westerfield had already made his statement, and he wouldn't have varied very much from that. Having Damon and Brenda in the courtroom, there was no question they needed to be in there.

Having been around lawyers both as one and as a journalist, is public opinion of lawyers fair?

Lawyers have good and bad days, but for the most part, it's probably accurate.

What did you want to be when you were a little girl, and what would you be doing if you weren't an attorney/journalist?

I wanted to be a lawyer since I was 13. Maybe I'd do something in science if I wasn't doing this.

What's on your CD player?

Latin jazz. Charlie Haden, Toots Thielemans, Marc Anthony, and Sarah Vaughan. I lived in Colombia when I was in college, so I like a lot of Spanish music.

Why are there so many blonde anchors and reporters on television?

I don't know. Certainly not all are, but you're right, a good majority are. Maybe they're responding to a certain demographic. Is anyone really a true blonde these days?

http://www.sdreader.com/php/cityshow.php3?id=C081502
Certainly not BVD and certainly not me.

[ican'tbelieveit]

That isn't my point Kim. For the people in jail right now on murder convictions sitting there because of bug expert testimony being an exact enough science to convict them, and if Westerfield is convicted despite the bug expert testimony, they deserve appeals, and acquitals.

[the Deejay]

And what about BVD telling 911, "She had green eyes."? Besides, Danielle had blue eyes and wasn't 6 feet tall, as Brenda told 911.

Also, in the LKL interview in Feb., the vdams used more past tense in referring to Danielle. Her body hadn't been found at that time. No, nothing sinister in that. (/sarcasm.)

[connectthedots]

I was visited by federal agents and I never said a word, I only nodded my head no that I wouldn't answer questions.

Speaking of federal agents, I have to leave in another hour or so to visit the agents at the local FBI office. My case is different than yours since I will be asking the questions and if I don't like their responses to my constitutional right to 'petition the government', they are the ones who might end up needing to hire lawyers. LOL. Hindering a criminal investigation and obstruction of justice are serious crimes related to RICO, for which there are civil remedies available.

[Freedom2specul8]

This also talks about teeth and bones being moved to rodents burroughs.

(sorry bout the format..takes to long to separate sentences)

This is something to ponder on...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/danielle/transcripts/20020725-9999-pm2.html

12 MR. FELDMAN: OKAY.13 Q. DO YOU AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT THAT "THE SURFACE14 SHELF HARD SKIN PROTECTS THE INTERNAL PORTIONS OF THE BODY AND15 SLOWS DEHYDRATION. MAGGOT ACTIVITY CONTINUES UNABATED UNDER16 THIS HARDENED MATERIAL DURING THE EARLIER PORTIONS OF THIS17 PROCESS." DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT?18 A. IF INSECTS ARE ABLE TO ACCESS IT, YES.

-------

6 A. THE STATEMENT, I DO AGREE THAT THE HARDENED SHELL7 PROTECTS AND PRESERVES MOISTURE WITHIN ANY INTERNAL ORGAN8 MATERIAL THAT IS THERE. DECOMPOSITION CAN STILL CONTINUE9 UNDERNEATH. IF MAGGOTS ARE PRESENT WITHIN THOSE CAVITIES, THEY10 CAN CERTAINLY CONTINUE TO DEVELOP UNDER THIS MUMMIFIED HARDENED11 SHELL.12 THE QUESTION IS ARE THERE INSECTS AND DO THEY HAVE13 ACCESS TO THAT AREA. I UNFORTUNATELY AM NOT A MIND READER OF14 INSECTS AND I CAN'T TELL WHERE AND HOW THEY MAKE THEIR ACCESS ON15 A PARTICULAR CASE.

---

27 Q. NOW, WITH REGARD TO I THINK YOU HAD TESTIFIED IN28 RESPONSE TO MR. DUSEK'S QUESTIONS SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE THAT87741 ONE THEORY WAS THAT THE BODY HAD MUMMIFIED AND THAT CARNIVORES2 HAD COME ALONG AND OPENED IT UP, AND AT THAT POINT THE BLOW3 FLIES CAME IN.4 DOES THAT FAIRLY DESCRIBE ONE OF YOUR PROPOSITIONS?5 A. THAT IS ONE THEORY AS I'VE HEARD.

---

8 A. WELL, THE THEORY IS I CAN'T SAY.9 THE INSECTS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE COULD HAVE10 ACCESSED THE BODY TWO WAYS.11 ONE, THEY COULD HAVE ACCESSED THE BODY THROUGH THE12 EYES, NOSE AND MOUTH IF THERE WASN'T SUFFICIENT DRYING AND THEY13 COULD MAKE IT THROUGH THE PASSAGES. AND I DON'T BELIEVE ANYBODY14 CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO HOW MANY OF THESE MAGGOTS OR15 LARVA COULD MAKE IT DOWN THROUGH THE AIRWAY OR THROUGH THE16 UROGENITAL TRACT.17 TYPICALLY, IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER ON AN ADULT18 BECAUSE THEY HAVE LARGER OPENINGS, AND THEREFORE, ALSO WOULD NOT19 DRY AS FAST AS A SMALL UROGENITAL VAULT OF A CHILD OR THE NASAL20 OPENINGS OF SUCH. SO THE INSECTS, VERY WELL SOME COULD MAKE IT21 DOWN THROUGH THESE NATURAL BODY OPENINGS. THEY ALSO COULD GAIN22 ACCESS THROUGH CARRION ACTIVITY SUCH AS ANIMALS, VERTEBRATES23 FEEDING ON THAT.

---

28 A. NO. THERE IS EVIDENCE OF CARNIVORE ACTIVITY. THAT87751 OF SCAVENGING ANIMALS THAT HAVE SUFFICIENT DIGESTIVE SYSTEMS AND2 DENTITION TO REMOVE THE SOFT TISSUES.3 Q. YES. AND, IN FACT, I THINK YOU MENTIONED ON DIRECT4 EXAMINATION, I THINK RODENTS OR SQUIRRELS OR SOMETHING COULD5 HAVE TAKEN THE TEETH?6 A. WHEN YOU HAVE A BODY THAT DECOMPOSES, AS I7 MENTIONED, IT'S A WHOLE ECOLOGICAL EVENT. YOU HAVE A FOOD8 SOURCE THAT'S BASICALLY BEEN INTRODUCED TO THAT AREA THAT9 NORMALLY WASN'T THERE, AND YOU START A CHAIN REACTION OF10 ACTIVITY, MANY BY THE INSECTS. NUMEROUS ANIMALS, INVERTEBRATES11 WILL VISIT THOSE REMAINS. IT CAN BE RODENTS THAT TYPICALLY WILL12 COME TO FEED ON SKELETALIZED REMAINS. THEY MAY FEED ON THE SOFT13 TISSUES. MANY TIMES THE RODENTS WILL REMOVE THE DENTITION THAT14 HAS FALLEN OUT, OR SMALL BONES. MANY TIMES WE FIND THESE IN15 THEIR BURROUGHS NEARBY WHERE THE BODY IS.16 BIRDS, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WILL COME REMOVE HAIR17 AS WELL AS RODENTS TO LINE THEIR NEST, AND YOU WILL HAVE A18 NUMBER OF OTHER LARGER, SPECIFICALLY MAMMALS, THAT COME IN AND19 WILL FEED ON THE BODY.

---

2 Q. DID YOU CONSIDER, WITH REGARD TO THE ARTICLE AND3 WITH REGARD TO THE BURGER STUDY, THAT THE FACT THAT THE BLOW4 FLIES WERE LESS ATTRACTED TO POSTMORTEM INCISIONS THAN TO5 NATURAL BODY OPENINGS WAS ATTRIBUTED TO THE COMPETITION FOR AIR,6 WHICH MIGHT OCCUR UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, AND THAT THAT MIGHT7 EXPLAIN WHY, IN SOME INSTANCES, INDICATIONS OF SHARP FORCE8 TRAUMA ARE PRESERVED IN MUMMIFIED SKIN AND NOT LOST TO INSECT9 ACTIVITY?10 A. WHEN YOU HAVE SHARP FORCE TRAUMA THAT, LET'S SAY,11 OCCURS POSTMORTEM, FOR SOME REASON OR OTHER, IF THOSE TISSUES12 ARE CUT, LACERATED, OPENED, AND YOU HAVE DRYING, THOSE TISSUES13 WILL DRY. AND MANY TIMES THEY CAN PRESERVE THE CUT MARK OR THE14 ACTUAL MORPHOLOGICAL CONTOUR.15 BUT AS WE SEE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IF YOU REFER16 TO DR. BLACKBOURNE'S REPORT, MANY OF THE ORGANS WERE STILL17 PRESENT, AND ALL THOSE SHOW SOME AUTOLYSIS. THEY WERE STILL18 ANATOMICALLY RECOGNIZABLE. THERE WERE STILL FLUIDS. AND EVEN19 WHEN THE HANDS I BELIEVE WERE SEPARATED, YOU COULD SEE RED20 MUSCULATURE. SO WE HAVE A FOOD SOURCE THAT IS STILL IN FAIRLY21 GOOD CONDITION AND HAVE A TRACT ATTRACTIVE FOR BLOW FLIES ONCE 22 EXPOSED.23 AND I HAVE WORKED ON REMAINS THAT BASICALLY HAVE24 BEEN MUMMIFIED AND HAVE GOOD PRESERVATION OF THE INTERNAL25 ORGANS, AND UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN OPENED26 UP, FLIES WILL COME IN AND FEED IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS

---

[ican'tbelieveit]

But a man who slips up one time in his use of language is definitely guilty in my book. /sarcasm

[wonders]

Would lack of fluid under the body indicate that it had not been there long?

Well, it is unusual. The only other explanation I can think of is that perhaps, as her body was small and lean, and if animals had opened up sufficient areas, the fluids evaporated in the dry air, rather than seeping down into the ground. I have no experience with such a case, though, and it still seems to me there would have been at least some drainage from the pelvic area. *CAPPSMADNESS: What do you think?

Anyway, in thinking about to describe how the fluids are produced, etc., it seemed to gross... so I looked up a web site for anyone interested in such:

http://www.dundee.ac.uk/forensicmedicine/llb/timedeath.htm