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To: ican'tbelieveit
This also talks about teeth and bones being moved to rodents burroughs.

(sorry bout the format..takes to long to separate sentences)

This is something to ponder on...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/danielle/transcripts/20020725-9999-pm2.html

12 MR. FELDMAN: OKAY.13 Q. DO YOU AGREE WITH THE STATEMENT THAT "THE SURFACE14 SHELF HARD SKIN PROTECTS THE INTERNAL PORTIONS OF THE BODY AND15 SLOWS DEHYDRATION. MAGGOT ACTIVITY CONTINUES UNABATED UNDER16 THIS HARDENED MATERIAL DURING THE EARLIER PORTIONS OF THIS17 PROCESS." DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT?18 A. IF INSECTS ARE ABLE TO ACCESS IT, YES.

-------

6 A. THE STATEMENT, I DO AGREE THAT THE HARDENED SHELL7 PROTECTS AND PRESERVES MOISTURE WITHIN ANY INTERNAL ORGAN8 MATERIAL THAT IS THERE. DECOMPOSITION CAN STILL CONTINUE9 UNDERNEATH. IF MAGGOTS ARE PRESENT WITHIN THOSE CAVITIES, THEY10 CAN CERTAINLY CONTINUE TO DEVELOP UNDER THIS MUMMIFIED HARDENED11 SHELL.12 THE QUESTION IS ARE THERE INSECTS AND DO THEY HAVE13 ACCESS TO THAT AREA. I UNFORTUNATELY AM NOT A MIND READER OF14 INSECTS AND I CAN'T TELL WHERE AND HOW THEY MAKE THEIR ACCESS ON15 A PARTICULAR CASE.




27 Q. NOW, WITH REGARD TO I THINK YOU HAD TESTIFIED IN28 RESPONSE TO MR. DUSEK'S QUESTIONS SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE THAT87741 ONE THEORY WAS THAT THE BODY HAD MUMMIFIED AND THAT CARNIVORES2 HAD COME ALONG AND OPENED IT UP, AND AT THAT POINT THE BLOW3 FLIES CAME IN.4 DOES THAT FAIRLY DESCRIBE ONE OF YOUR PROPOSITIONS?5 A. THAT IS ONE THEORY AS I'VE HEARD.




8 A. WELL, THE THEORY IS I CAN'T SAY.9 THE INSECTS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE COULD HAVE10 ACCESSED THE BODY TWO WAYS.11 ONE, THEY COULD HAVE ACCESSED THE BODY THROUGH THE12 EYES, NOSE AND MOUTH IF THERE WASN'T SUFFICIENT DRYING AND THEY13 COULD MAKE IT THROUGH THE PASSAGES. AND I DON'T BELIEVE ANYBODY14 CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO HOW MANY OF THESE MAGGOTS OR15 LARVA COULD MAKE IT DOWN THROUGH THE AIRWAY OR THROUGH THE16 UROGENITAL TRACT.17 TYPICALLY, IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER ON AN ADULT18 BECAUSE THEY HAVE LARGER OPENINGS, AND THEREFORE, ALSO WOULD NOT19 DRY AS FAST AS A SMALL UROGENITAL VAULT OF A CHILD OR THE NASAL20 OPENINGS OF SUCH. SO THE INSECTS, VERY WELL SOME COULD MAKE IT21 DOWN THROUGH THESE NATURAL BODY OPENINGS. THEY ALSO COULD GAIN22 ACCESS THROUGH CARRION ACTIVITY SUCH AS ANIMALS, VERTEBRATES23 FEEDING ON THAT.




28 A. NO. THERE IS EVIDENCE OF CARNIVORE ACTIVITY. THAT87751 OF SCAVENGING ANIMALS THAT HAVE SUFFICIENT DIGESTIVE SYSTEMS AND2 DENTITION TO REMOVE THE SOFT TISSUES.3 Q. YES. AND, IN FACT, I THINK YOU MENTIONED ON DIRECT4 EXAMINATION, I THINK RODENTS OR SQUIRRELS OR SOMETHING COULD5 HAVE TAKEN THE TEETH?6 A. WHEN YOU HAVE A BODY THAT DECOMPOSES, AS I7 MENTIONED, IT'S A WHOLE ECOLOGICAL EVENT. YOU HAVE A FOOD8 SOURCE THAT'S BASICALLY BEEN INTRODUCED TO THAT AREA THAT9 NORMALLY WASN'T THERE, AND YOU START A CHAIN REACTION OF10 ACTIVITY, MANY BY THE INSECTS. NUMEROUS ANIMALS, INVERTEBRATES11 WILL VISIT THOSE REMAINS. IT CAN BE RODENTS THAT TYPICALLY WILL12 COME TO FEED ON SKELETALIZED REMAINS. THEY MAY FEED ON THE SOFT13 TISSUES. MANY TIMES THE RODENTS WILL REMOVE THE DENTITION THAT14 HAS FALLEN OUT, OR SMALL BONES. MANY TIMES WE FIND THESE IN15 THEIR BURROUGHS NEARBY WHERE THE BODY IS.16 BIRDS, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WILL COME REMOVE HAIR17 AS WELL AS RODENTS TO LINE THEIR NEST, AND YOU WILL HAVE A18 NUMBER OF OTHER LARGER, SPECIFICALLY MAMMALS, THAT COME IN AND19 WILL FEED ON THE BODY.




2 Q. DID YOU CONSIDER, WITH REGARD TO THE ARTICLE AND3 WITH REGARD TO THE BURGER STUDY, THAT THE FACT THAT THE BLOW4 FLIES WERE LESS ATTRACTED TO POSTMORTEM INCISIONS THAN TO5 NATURAL BODY OPENINGS WAS ATTRIBUTED TO THE COMPETITION FOR AIR,6 WHICH MIGHT OCCUR UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, AND THAT THAT MIGHT7 EXPLAIN WHY, IN SOME INSTANCES, INDICATIONS OF SHARP FORCE8 TRAUMA ARE PRESERVED IN MUMMIFIED SKIN AND NOT LOST TO INSECT9 ACTIVITY?10 A. WHEN YOU HAVE SHARP FORCE TRAUMA THAT, LET'S SAY,11 OCCURS POSTMORTEM, FOR SOME REASON OR OTHER, IF THOSE TISSUES12 ARE CUT, LACERATED, OPENED, AND YOU HAVE DRYING, THOSE TISSUES13 WILL DRY. AND MANY TIMES THEY CAN PRESERVE THE CUT MARK OR THE14 ACTUAL MORPHOLOGICAL CONTOUR.15 BUT AS WE SEE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IF YOU REFER16 TO DR. BLACKBOURNE'S REPORT, MANY OF THE ORGANS WERE STILL17 PRESENT, AND ALL THOSE SHOW SOME AUTOLYSIS. THEY WERE STILL18 ANATOMICALLY RECOGNIZABLE. THERE WERE STILL FLUIDS. AND EVEN19 WHEN THE HANDS I BELIEVE WERE SEPARATED, YOU COULD SEE RED20 MUSCULATURE. SO WE HAVE A FOOD SOURCE THAT IS STILL IN FAIRLY21 GOOD CONDITION AND HAVE A TRACT ATTRACTIVE FOR BLOW FLIES ONCE 22 EXPOSED.23 AND I HAVE WORKED ON REMAINS THAT BASICALLY HAVE24 BEEN MUMMIFIED AND HAVE GOOD PRESERVATION OF THE INTERNAL25 ORGANS, AND UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS WHEN THEY HAVE BEEN OPENED26 UP, FLIES WILL COME IN AND FEED IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS





438 posted on 08/16/2002 1:21:17 PM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
K. Just sos we all agree. The blowflies didn't get to her completely mummified body until the animals got there first to open her up.

The animal activity couldn't happen till the body was free of barriers.

The barriers were eliminated when the rodents and birds removed the plastic sheet and/or netting she was wrapped up in so they could redecorate their homes. They are fairly small and need to coordinate so, yeah I guess it coulda taken 2 weeks.

/so
Awful lot of comfy creatures in SanDiego 'bout right now.

Playing in background: music from Cinderella, the dress making scene

457 posted on 08/16/2002 1:47:04 PM PDT by Jaded
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