Who left the dimensional door open? - Thread 017

News Center (Online) ^ | 1/29/02 | Unknown

[acnielsen guy]

THREAD 017

Dregs and Flakes

Posts since 1/29/02 19,717

[palo verde]

hi darling
the 3 bears arrived
I am in love
you have made me so very very happy
I love you
Palo

[andysandmikesmom]

Two very interesting articles, which provide much for thought and reflection...

I guess the article that voiced the thought, that one can disageee with a president, or a law, or acts of Congress, and can still remain a patriot, is one which resounds for me...

I cannot stand it, when someone may disagree with a Presidents wishes, or a Presidents actions, and then others pipe up, and tell that person they should leave the country then...What hogwash...

To me, it is a disagreement, its a diverstiy of ideas, its folks who actually think in order to arrive at their ideals, that make America great...

The last thing we need is a bunch of cattle, or a bunch of robots...Agreeing with everything, and not allowing dissent is what is dangerous...

Many would not agree with me...they want everyone to believe as they believe, and since they believe they are right, they must believe that I am wrong...and they think that if you think wrong, you should leave...

America is Great, because its better than any other country on earth...and it will remain so, only if agreement and dissent, pros and cons, ups and downs, rights and wrongs, are allowed to be on the table for discussion...the constant give and take, between the citizens should be there....if we are allowed to be afraid of dissent, and the only way we can deal with dissent is to name call, or tell people to leave, then indeed, we are afraid of our very positions, which we say we believe in...

Just my own opinion...

[andysandmikesmom]

Well, they made a fast trip....sure hope you like them, and that they will provide you with a little company....

[palo verde]

they are jewels
and I love the sweaters on two of them
(the other has snappy uncle sam outfit)
you are truly a dollie connoisseur to have found them
one is on my lap now
and other two on my desk
Love, Palo

[palo verde]

One of the most severe tests of a friendship and of citizenship itself, and at the very heart of democracy and our American way of life, is our ability, after a serious disagreement with another, to remain cordial, friendly, tolerant, loyal and supportive

I thought this is what made the whole thing so profound
Love, Palo

[palo verde]

andysmom, I found your post just as profound as the email ac received
I agree with you wholeheartedly
well said
Love, Palo

[acnielsen guy]

after a serious disagreement with another, to remain cordial, friendly,
tolerant, loyal and supportive

Yes that is true. When I read that palo I thought of you - it is something we
should all remember

[acnielsen guy]

I agree with you - I never did like the "either you are for us or against us" slogan. It was totalitarian in its scope.

[lodwick]

Excellent job @ 162 - I got so caught up with God, that I smooth forgot to vote on the criticism article.

AC - from now on, wait till Mom votes, and make another mark for me.

[lodwick]

Are you voting on the Pledge of Allegiance article? ;-)

[palo verde]

you know I didn't mind it when dissenters were made to feel unwelcome on Lcom
cause Lcom seems like such a focused forum
we had one purpose, to save the republic from clinton and get Bush in

I never understood the purpose of Lcom after that was accomplished

but FR seemed like a place for exchange of ideas
I got concerned when I noticed the dissenters were made to feel unwelcome here by some of the posters
I thought it would affect the vibrancy of FR as a whole

also I agree with what you said because I read a wheel can only work when its spokes are 180 degrees apart
it made me realize how divergent ideas are essential for healthy democracy
Love, Palo

[acnielsen guy]

I am glad you like it I was not sure I should post it here but it make sense for me. I do not believe that an atheist objected to the term unless atheism has also become a religion of disbelief.

I would consider myself an atheist but that is personal. I don’t fear the name of God or want anyone to have my disbelief. Once someone campaigns in the name of atheism we have another inflexible religious dogma to contend with

[andysandmikesmom]

The 'God' issue in the pledge is really a tough issue for me...I love God so much, and believe as firmly as anything, that He does exist, and wishes only the best for His children...that is my personal belief...

On the other hand, I guess I try to place myself in the shoes of those who would wish the words 'Under God' were not in the pledge....

I do seem to remember being a little girl, and originally learning the pledge without the words 'Under God'...when we were to learn it, using the words 'Under God', I dont remember what my little girl thoughts on that issue were...I would like to think I was pleased, because going to Sunday School and Church had taught me all about such a loving God...and I remember our ministers always praying for God to bless our leaders, and give them wisdom to lead our country.....so I guess, combining God and our country, did not at all seem strange to me....

But it does not seem to me, that having the words, 'Under God' violates any constitutional guarantee...it is not establishing a religion, one is not forced to say the words 'Under God'....I guess I am letting my own prejudice show here....that is why this is a tough issue for me...

I know that the Jehovahs witness, do not say the pledge at all, nor do they allow their children to say it in school...I think that if one choses to raise their family as atheists, then one could still recite the pledge , and just not say the words, 'Under God', tho of course, they would be subjected to hearing those words...

As I say, this is really a difficult issue for me...I think I am trying to figure out what God would want, and that is difficult...I would hate to see the words 'Under God' deleted from our pledge...that is what my heart and my spirit says...

But what do we say, to those children whose parents have raised them to be atheists? I dont think that these children really suffer any harm at all from the words 'Under God'...Yet I guess I can say, that from these parents points of view, somehow their teachings of their children are being undermined by the pledge and the words 'Under God'...Yet the opposite of this, is that, is such a child is exposed to the words 'Under God', perhaps that child will then explore the possibilities that his own parents could be wrong(which as we know, since no parents are infallible, we all make mistakes)and the child may actually investigate 'God' on his own...

As I said, this is a difficult issue for me...

[andysandmikesmom]

I know the bears are happy in your home, and glad that you are happy, posting along with a little bear in your lap...I did not think I had a lot of Teddy bears in my house, but looking around, I see I have more than I realized...

And I know I have more Teddy bears in the garage, the ones my boys had when they were little fellas...every little child has his own favorite Teddy Bear, or at least they should...

[lodwick]

It's enjoyable and stimulating to think about weightier problems from time to time, and I have certainly enjoyed PV's and Mom's thoughts on the matters.

Ms.O'Hare did her level best to elevate atheism to a belief system - I don't quite understand how they would have conducted the services or anything. Would they have substitued NoGod and NoJesus and just gone on like a church service?

[andysandmikesmom]

You are very wise, noting that Atheism could become another religion, with an inflexible dogma...I had not thought of it in those terms, but see what you are saying...

[andysandmikesmom]

Mrs. Ohare, from what little I remember, was also so vehement that she was right, and often times she was so nasty, that I came to dislike her, not just for her stance, but for the way in which she acted, tho her behavior should not really be the influence on this subject...

[lodwick]

For most decent people, atheists, Christians - anyone decent would have had trouble loving that despicable creature. Strident, foul-mouthed bitch that she was.

Her ending was as horrible as what she did to God in this country.

Payback...or coincidence?

[palo verde]

your hubby packed the box with bears in it with popcorn all around it to protect the bears
Happy and Lulu just knocked over the box of popcorn
it is now all over the floor
I'll have to pick it up before bill finishes the painting he is working on at his easel
Happy and Lulu do not care that popcorn is all over floor
the bears are sitting happily on my desk
Love, Palo

[andysandmikesmom]

Well, thank you for voicing exactly how I felt about Mrs. Ohare...she was all that you say and more...

Her ending was as despicable as she was...

She did try to foist her ideas onto us, much as she claimed we were doing to her...

I often wondered what made her so hateful...