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Some questions and answers about: Second Hand Smoke
alt.smokers FAQ ^ | Joe Dawson

Posted on 06/12/2002 10:32:54 AM PDT by Just another Joe

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To: Just another Joe
I am not naive enough to think that filling my lungs with toxins may or may not kill me ultimately.

But it is MY choice. I choose to take this LEGAL substance. (I've tried and failed to quit a number of times) So I'm not an idiot about the health risks associated with smoking.

But if the people so convinced in shoving their own 'rights' and agenda's down people's necks, got off their HIGH moral ground, and stopped victimising smokers, while at the same time eulogising heroine users and giving them chance after chance in society, I might be prepared to listen.

But why should I, as a nicotine addict be shunned, when we're all supposed to open our doors to the 'touchy feely' hard drug abusing misfits, who can't deal with reality.

Granted, a cigarette has de-stressed me in a high-octane job from killing someone. But if I wanna quit, I won't go looking for the government to give me a goddamn nicotine patch to stop.

21 posted on 06/12/2002 5:26:38 PM PDT by Happygal
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To: Just another Joe
I hope you realize that second-hand smoke is the leading cause of Islamic terrorism?
22 posted on 06/12/2002 5:40:50 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
I hope you realize that second-hand smoke is the leading cause of Islamic terrorism?

Oh, it is not.
You know that cigarette smuggling across state borders is the leading cause of Islamic terrorism.

23 posted on 06/12/2002 6:45:04 PM PDT by Just another Joe
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To: Just another Joe
Part of the inductions to cult groups, such as the Moonies, was controlling their substance intake, even to deciding what kinds of foods they were allowed to eat. Smoking, of course, is usually nixed, too. Is it a bridge too far to assume this aspect of mind control is also part of the ultra-leftist agenda?
24 posted on 06/12/2002 7:07:38 PM PDT by lds23
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To: Happygal
But why should I, as a nicotine addict be shunned, when we're all supposed to open our doors to the 'touchy feely' hard drug abusing misfits, who can't deal with reality.

while I do not consider myself a "nicotine addict" I understand exactly what you are saying.

I actually had an anti spouting that at me last night - that nicotine was more addictive than than heroine or cocaine. cut me a break.

25 posted on 06/12/2002 7:18:07 PM PDT by Gabz
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To: Max McGarrity
The thing that amazes me is the disconnect with common sense. Think about it. When I take a drag on a cigarette, I am inhaling a significantly concentrated amount of smoke. That same amount of smoke diluted in the airspace of an average sized room is much less concentrated, and therefore any effects from that smoke will be much less severe. Given that a smoker may, after 40 years of smoking develop health problems, the so-called second-hand smoke cannot logically produce the kind of effects that the anti's say they do, because of the dilution factor. Non-smokers simply cannot be affected in any statistically significant way by exposure to so-called second-hand smoke, because the concentration is so much less compared to what a smoker gets by direct inhalation from the end of the cigarette in his/her mouth. The larger the space the smoke is diluted in, the less effect it will have, and if it's outdoors, the possibility of effects drops to near zero, or at least to the same level as other pollutants in the air, to the point where it cannot be ascertained which pollutant could be the cause of an adverse health reaction. This is 9th grade Science, folks!
26 posted on 06/12/2002 8:20:22 PM PDT by nobdysfool
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To: nobdysfool
nobdysfool,

It's my strong feeling that none of the anti's really believe that SHS kills. They just don't like the smell (they like the grant/settlement money, though).

However, trying to ban 25% of the population because you don't like the way they smell was never going to get up as a frontline argument.

These days, it's only the hardcore anti's who use SHS deaths (in ever increasing, hysterical numbers) to argue banning. Almost everyone else is now saying they don't like the smell, or it makes their clothes stink, or it destroys their dining experience.

Since the time man first discovered fire, until about ten years ago, humans have constantly been surrounded by smoke - first from camp fires, then from wood-burning stoves and fireplaces, then from smokers.

In the space of 10 years, the hysteria generated by the anti's has led to the banning of virtually all sources of smoke in society. So, while for over 1,000,000 years, smoke has been accepted as a normal part of human life, in less than 10 years people have become so oversensitised to it that they shrink back in horror and revulsion from even the smallest whiff.

And what is it that is so dreadful that the people of today cannot live with it, while the people of the past 33,000 generations have had no problem with it? Why, just a little bit of burning leaf.

We have, indeed, become a society of soft-headed, soft-bellied creampuffs!

27 posted on 06/12/2002 10:26:10 PM PDT by I'm_With_Orwell
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To: Just another Joe
Good article.
They couldn't scare some smokers enough to eliminate cigarettes altogether which is their goal, although why I don't quite understand.
Therefore, since we all didn't Obey the masters, they had to come up with another tactic. Enter, second hand smoke killers.
They have isolated us, made us the enemy of clean lungers to try and force us into submission.
Since this isn't working either, they have now decided we are killing "embryos in the wombs of others" now too.
Of course, that is only a problem if the 'fetus" dies from second hand smoke.
Abortion is okay, as long as the abortionist is not doing the procedure while puffing on a Marlboro!
28 posted on 06/12/2002 11:44:04 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: Just another Joe
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,26109,00.html

Second-Hand Smokescreens

World No-Tobacco Day 2001 was yesterday.  Sponsored by the World Health Organization, the theme was secondhand smoke.  The event’s poster featured “Secondhand Smoke Kills” emblazoned over a photo of the Marlboro Man riding into the sunset.

WHO proclaimed, “Second-hand smoke is a real and significant threat to public health.  Supported by two decades of evidence, the scientific community now agrees that there is no safe level of exposure to second-hand smoke… The evidence is in, let is act on it.”

That’s quite an ironic statement, though.  It appears the WHO doesn’t even put much faith in its own research on secondhand smoke.

The WHO’s World No-Tobacco day web site lists, “Comprehensive Reports on Passive Smoking by Authoritative Scientific Bodies.” The listed reports include the 1986 reports from the Surgeon General and National Research Council, the 1993 report from the U.S.  Environmental Protection Agency, and two late-1990s reports from the California EPA.

For those unfamiliar with the reports, the list appears formidable.  Otherwise, it’s just disingenuous.

The 1986 reports by the NRC and Surgeon General concluded secondhand smoke was a risk factor for lung cancer.  But of the 13 studies reviewed, 7 reported no link between secondhand smoke and lung cancer.  Given the statistical nature of these studies, this split in results is precisely what one would expect if no true link existed.

Neither report produced much progress for anti-smoking activists.  So they convinced the EPA to pick up the gauntlet.

Thirty-three studies on secondhand smoke had been completed by 1993.  More than 80 percent of the studies reported no association between secondhand smoke and lung cancer, including the largest of the studies.  The EPA reviewed 31 studies - inexplicably omitting two studies reporting no association between secondhand smoke and lung cancer - and estimated secondhand smoke caused 3,000 lung cancer deaths annually.

Under the stewardship of the anti-tobacco Clinton administration, secondhand smoke hysteria caught fire.

Observing the “success” of the EPA report, the California EPA adopted by reference the EPA’s conclusions into the state agency’s own report.  Little original or independent analysis went into the Cal-EPA report.

Just when it seemed anti-smoking activists finally succeeded in producing scientific reports establishing secondhand smoke as a health risk, a federal judge overturned the EPA report in 1998.  He ruled the EPA cheated on the science.

Later in 1998, the WHO published the largest study ever done on secondhand smoke and lung cancer.  The study reported no statistically significant association between secondhand smoke and lung cancer.  Oops.

Now let’s go back to the WHO’s list of reports on its web page.

The 1986 reports don’t carry any weight.  That’s why the EPA did a new report.  But the EPA report was in all important respects trashed by a federal judge - by implication, a fate also deserved of the California report that relied on the EPA report.

And the WHO omitted its own report from the list of “comprehensive reports” by “authoritative scientific bodies”  no doubt because the “wrong” answer was reported.

If secondhand smoke really increases lung cancer risk, why all the smoke-and-mirrors?

Of course, lung cancer is not the only health alarm sounded about secondhand smoke.  The science on these issues is also not as it’s hyped.

The WHO claims secondhand smoke causes between 35,000 to 62,000 deaths from heart disease annually in the U.S.  But the WHO omits mention of an important New England Journal of Medicine editorial on the controversy.

University of Chicago Hospital health studies chairman John Bailar - hardly sympathetic to the tobacco industry - dismissed the link between secondhand smoke and heart disease, citing the poor quality of study data and evident researcher bias.

WHO claims, “Second-hand smoke also causes and aggravates asthma and other breathing problems, particularly in children.  It is also an important cause of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).”

But researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention examining data from the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Surveyreported in January’s Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine there was no association between secondhand smoke and asthma among 5,400 children aged 4 to 16 years of age.

No one knows what causes SIDS.  Just this week, Wake Forest University researchers reported SIDS may be related to a genetic deficiency.  Reportedly, the absence of a particular muscle enzyme allows fatty acid products to accumulate, producing a toxic effect causing heart arrhythmias and respiratory arrest.

Anti-smoking activists have yet to explain where were all the childhood asthma and SIDS cases in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s when smoking indoors was commonplace and adult smoking rates were much higher than they are now.

Secondhand smoke is annoying to many nonsmokers.  That is the essence of the controversy and where the debate should lie - the rights of smokers to smoke in public places versus the rights of nonsmokers to be free of tobacco smoke.

In debates over individual liberties, fabricated and propagandized science should play no role.

Steven Milloy is the publisher of JunkScience.com, an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and the author of the upcoming book Junk Science Judo: Self-Defense Against Health Scares and Scams (Cato Institute, 2001).  Mr.  Milloy may be reached at milloy@cais.com. 
 
 

29 posted on 06/13/2002 8:42:01 AM PDT by aaaDOC
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To: aaaDOC
Wow, Doc, That one should have been posted on it's own over in the news category.
Do you think I should?
Since you found this one I'll leave the decision to you.
30 posted on 06/13/2002 9:12:53 AM PDT by Just another Joe
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To: aaaDOC
Bravo and thank you.
31 posted on 06/13/2002 2:47:23 PM PDT by Max McGarrity
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