Freeoples Thread 303

[Mo1]

Freeoples ....

Thread 303

[Letitring]

Thanks TomKat Kitty. I've been having horrible computer troubles again. Maybe this is why it's acting up. I'll go see.:)

[gratefulwharffratt]

I thought it was a very civil discussion.

And I posted that thing I did, under the heading of 'Anti-Catholic Bashing,' and not as accepted doctrine.

But people ARE being taught that, so it can't hurt to discuss it. I had always wondered if the average Catholic had any idea that some people were taught that. Mo says not.

And being taught that, is a little more widespread than Catpuppy wants to admit. It's not like anybody is against any Individual Catholics, even if they DID believe that notion. It is the GENERIC Church that they believe will fulfill prophecy.

[sweetliberty]

The papacy and the Catholic church are not strangers to scandal. Historically, those who were not born into positions of power or for those males who were not first-born sons, becoming a cleric or a monastic were often the only "acceptable" avenues to pursue. It mattered little the desires of the individual so the element of "high calling" was in many cases, if not most, completely lacking. The Church was a road to power which was co-equal with the government. It was the flagrant and well-known abuses of that power that set off initially apostasy within the church and later fueled the protestant reformation as well as laying the ground work for our own prohibition on a state church, the idea being to prevent the same enmeshed power structure between the church and state which had so utterly corrupted the church and diluted the state under the European hierarchy.

[sweetliberty]

The point I was making is that the Catholic church has always managed to weather scandal and in many cases it has brought about a purging which was for the better. Sometimes the solutions have led to furthur problems, but other times it has caused the church to resort to some much needed introspection and self-discipline. No, this will not destroy the church either.

[sweetliberty]

Thanks for sharing the virus information. I thankfully nuked my Outlook address book after being hit twice with the W32Magistr virus last fall. It had a devastating effect on my computer. Now I seldom use Outlook at all and keep no addresses stored there.

[Letitring]

I don't know if I've got the thing or not. I downloaded that patch, but don't know where I downloaded it to. I can't find it. Shessh. I'll maybe try again later.

[ValerieUSA]

I downloaded the patch - and the fix. Took awhile to run, but it deleted 9 files, repaired 40 and fixed one registry entry. I definitely was infected (my computer was anyway).

[sweetliberty]

You are right about that Ratty. Many people have been taught that the Roman Catholic church will be the fulfillment of the prophecy of the whore of Babylon, so much so that our church saw fit to specifically teach against it. I have my own theory as to who/what the whore of Babylon is. I think it involves the church, but not a specific church. Considering the church as the bride of Christ...not the Catholic church but the entire Christian world as the church, it stands to reason that there would be those who follow after false teachings and corrupt the church with those teachings and practices. Some of these things may not be "evil" in and of themselves, but if the priorities get screwed up enough and the focus goes in the wrong place, it can have a cumulative effect of leading the "church" down the primrose path in a manner of speaking.

Consider as an example, a church leader or figure who develops a reputation as a healer because he seems legitimately to have been given the gift of healing. It is not such a stretch to see his followers elevating him to the position reserved for Christ alone. There are many examples I could use, but you get the idea. Scripture warns repeatedly against following after idols and false gods. The whore of Babylon (and Babylon I believe is representative of the world) is the church who will lust after anything and everything within the church that exalts itself above Christ. It might be healing, or power, or money (look at the rise in the popularity iof the prosperity gospel). It could be something more esoteric, such as we were discussing the other night regarding labyrinths...not a bad thing in themselves, but with the potential to become an idol.

Scripture is full of warnings about priorities and particularly about shepherd/leaders in the church who lead the "sheep" astray. And keep in mind, we are often called sheep in scripture and if you know anything about sheep, and I'm guessing you probably do, then you understand why. We need to look no furthur than the DU or even at times on FR to see both tragic and hilarious examples of sheeple. And if we are really honest with ourselves, we really have to look no furthur than the bathroom mirror, because while some of us may be generally smarter than others, at least about some things, none of us is invulnerable. It is in our nature. Indeed, sometimes it is our own intelligence that causes the stumbling block, so we must always be on guard.

[sweetliberty]

Mornin' Nully. Sorry I missed you lasdt night. I got really sleepy. What are your the kids' big plans for you for the weekend?

[sweetliberty]

lasdt = last

[gogeo]

Libby, I wasn't referring to anyone here when I spoke about criticism of the Catholic Church. I'm a little bit frustrated right now about leftists and church.

It seems to be a characteristic of conservatives that they build institutions. It seems to be a characteristic of the left that they take over institutions. I recall a lot of alarm in the 60's that the left was in fact taking over the Catholic Church.

The values we see in play and at issue in the church...pedophilia, acceptance of homosexuality...are causes of the left.

[gogeo]

The leadership of my own church, Lutheran (ELCA) has been taken over by the left and we're being painfully dragged along. I receive a propaganda rag called The Lutheran and I migrate between disbelief and dismay. There's currently a "study" being undertaken on sexuality. It's the second of the last 10 years.

The study is fixed, of course. The first didn't turn out the way the church leadership wanted, so like Algore in Florida, we will study until we get the result they want, then stop. Prior to this there was a "Call to Common Mission" where our clergy was merged with the Episcopalians. It's meant some doctrinal adjustment, which is not going down well.

[gogeo]

So I've been in dispute with my church...unwilling to support the undermining of the values I sought by membership. It sucks.

[Letitring]

Oh, the NGO's launched a concerted effort to infiltrate and weaken churches, nationwide, while Clinton was Prez. They received HUGE amounts of OUR tax dollars to do this. I wish I had the source for that info at hand. When I get time, I'll look for it. Was on a university web site, if I remember correctly. All about the money and laid out their game plan. It's exactly what you are talking about. Ted Turner also gave millions to this. I wish I could remember the organizations name. Drat. I have no time right now, to go look for it. Maybe some other brain will kick in here, and help out.

[Letitring]

This same NGO attacked the Methodist church. It's changed so much now, I'm almost glad my Aunt is not alive to see it. Changed their bylaws, etc. Was a big flap about it. The Methodist even found out they were subsidizing abortions out of their tithes.

[sweetliberty]

Just as I have long suspected, blacks with enough sense to become conservatives don't get to be black any more.

Voting method deemed biased (Judge says Black Republicans are not "black")

[ValerieUSA]

Hi gogeo. I've stayed away from the mainstream churches for most of my life. Was very active in the Anderson, Indiana based Church of God (There are so many Churches of God that I have to be specific -- it wasn't an Assembly of God type church) which has a lot of congregations in Washington. There are a couple in the Olympia-Lacey area and a big one in Centralia that I know and one in Morton. I haven't found one in Waco.
I've gone to a couple of Baptist churches here (that's what dominates Waco) but they are white - all white. There are some all black congregations, too. I am not used to that, and am very uncomfortable with it.

[Darlin']

""This is a dangerous mistake for our children and for the future of our society."

If Palestinians keep encouraging their children to become martyrs the Israelis won't have to worry about the next generation of terrorist.

[Letitring]

I don't know how that ever turned out with the Methodist church. Just know alot of folks were upset and outraged over it. They discussed it on political websites. Might even be something in the archives here about it.

[gogeo]

It seems to have infected the seminaries also, just like secular colleges. One article in the latest issue of The Lutheran was by a widely admired writer who compared Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson to the Taliban and Al Qaida. The editor's page asserted that W's "simplistic rhetoric" and "ignoring the needs, legitimate aspirations" of those who oppose us.

If I have to look to my President for moral clarity, and cannot find it in my church, then bully for my president and shame on my church!