Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn) II

[HairOfTheDog]

Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.

Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.

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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.

[cantbebought]

How true. I guess there weren't any 'political' marriages among the Elves.

Thanks, I've been silently admiring your Tolkien knowledge since these threads began.

[Penny1]

I like your point.... Aragorn looks to Frodo as the leader, and after that it seems like once Frodo takes on the responsibility of trusting Strider, the other hobbits defer to him. It is an interesting transfer of authority, and rather subtle. Frodo may be deferring to Aragorn on the overall decisions, but he's the one that decides that all of them need to follow Aragorn's lead. Very interesting dynamics indeed...

I also think, though, that Frodo makes a major leap in his taking on the role of leader when he leaves the fellowship and he and Sam go off on their own. But this portion of the story is where he starts heading in that direction, I think.

[GretchenEE]

You can ask the Administrator to delete specific posts -- just state that they are yours and since posting, you have discovered they are not factual, or some such. I don't know of any way to accomplish this other than hitting "Report Abuse," but flagging the Admin. Moderator usually brings a response quickly.

[HairOfTheDog]

eh. My error can stay there for all to see. ;~D

[Overtaxed]

Pulease! Everybody hug your lonely Ranger today!

I'll give him a hug! Where is he? :) Now I've got a mental picture of Aragorn being mobbed by groupies.

[Overtaxed]

Speaking of leadership....(Now for a little Elf bashing).....

Hail fellow Elf-basher! Welcome to Took's Corner. :) I would say something mor about Gil-galad cutting and running but it would upset my fellow hobbits.

[BibChr]

Though they did move my favorite line "...if by life or death I can save you, I will" to the Council of Elrond ....

...and changed it to "if by my life or death I can help you," if memory serves. A favorite line of mine, as well.

Dan

[Countyline]

"Hehehehe Jen... I am not bashing Aragorn in general! But that was a wimpy moment. One wimpy sentence in the middle of a fabulous dialogue."

Isn't this a 'real' moment ... that makes Stryder seem 'real' to us?

"I hoped you would take me for my own sake. A hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust and longs for friendship"...

It is one of the moments that let's us open our heart to him (a bit). Rings of 'real' truth. I do not consider it to be whiny. Maybe I look to hard for warmth in another.

[NewCenturions]

My biggest complaint with the film was that the Prancing Pony scene was jush rushed thru and chopped to pieces. I understand the time constraints, etc but really, this has always been my favorite chapter in the books and the movie lost some important moments. The whole 'feel' of the dark night, 'someone' sneaking over the gate, Merry going off to check on the horses (and meeting a black rider),etc. Stider's introduction and the SLOW realization that he is one of the good guys was done so well in the book. Also, while Pippin does talk too openly and is getting dangerously foolish, he was never so foolish to reveal Frodo's real name. It was such a scary chapter to read but in the movie, it merely becomes a transition scene. There. I am done complaining.

[Countyline]

" ...perhaps, following Aragorn gives him confidence and security that he has not felt since they started, alone and guideless in the wild."

Aye ... we all start as such ... and know the the need of a valiant guide.
... (and protector) which does not happen for everyone.

[BibChr]

Join the club with HotD and me, that wishes it'd been an 8 hour movie (which would have earned $4327)!

I know, it is a great and pivotal scene. I think that if you hadn't read that, the way Jackson does it works well; I know that audiences of the uninitiated find it quite suspenseful. (In one, an obviously uninitiated guy moaned "Oh, s--t!" when the Black Riders appeared in the room.)

Jackson's whole burden, I understand, was that he had to move the Ring from the Shire to the brink of Mordor in this movie, and keep things developing. While agreeing heartily with you that I wish missing elements had been included, I think he did a marvelous job.

Dan

[ecurbh]

I also think, though, that Frodo makes a major leap in his taking on the role of leader when he leaves the fellowship and he and Sam go off on their own.

And that is why in the film, Gandalf thrusts the Moria decision upon Frodo. He knows (or suspects) that the Fellowship will eventually break, and that Frodo will need to be able to take decisive action.

[fire and forget]

Thanks for the latest ping. I can only get here every so often, and I've not yet found the time to peruse the thread in its entirety, and rarely find the time to participate. Again, will as I can.

Grateful as always,

Sean.

[JenB]

I would say something mor about Gil-galad cutting and running but it would upset my fellow hobbits

Cutting and running? Does the definition of "cutting and running" include "facing Sauron in close combat and being destroyed by him"? Otherwise I don't know what you're talking about.

[fire and forget]

Exactly right. It's not whiny at all. Aragorn at this point is a forlorne individual, pursuing and battling the enemies of his forefathers, but enjoying none of the privilege and recognition his forebears had when they were kings in the North and South, and having no certainty that his line would continue through him.

His was a long, lonely quest. Naturally he would seek friendship among those decent people his paths crossed.

[Overtaxed]

Perhaps "cut and run" was a bit of an oversimplification of what cantbebought was saying about Gil-galad not having an heir.

He ruled for 3,514 years and marches off to the biggest war in ages were, when he falls, the Noldor Kingdom in exile also fails.

Isn't producing an heir part of a king's (let alone a so-called High King's) duty? So when he "cuts and runs' on his dynastic duty, it was history for the Noldor Kingdom in exile.

[Overtaxed]

Perhaps "cut and run" was a bit of an oversimplification of what cantbebought was saying about Gil-galad not having an heir.

He ruled for 3,514 years and marches off to the biggest war in ages were, when he falls, the Noldor Kingdom in exile also fails.

Isn't producing an heir part of a king's (let alone a so-called High King's) duty? So when he "cuts and runs' on his dynastic duty, it was history for the Noldor Kingdom in exile.

[Penny1]

Yes, that is an interesting moment in the film.... I think also Gandalf knew he might not emerge from Moria and knew that not only did Frodo need to be able to make important decisions, but the others needed to learn to see Frodo's decisions as valid, especially Boromir.

[JenB]

I'm not sure that you can make that case, especially when we're dealing with Elves. Even when there were cases where a king was killed, the throne did not necessarily go to his eldest son. For example, Feanor was the elder son of Finwe, but the throne went to his younger (and more rational) brother. The people of Gondolin looked to Tuor, a human and the king's son in law, rather than to a male relative of the king. And it doesn't seem that Elrond inherited any kingship, even though his father Earendil had been, basically, a king. I think the Noldor tended to chose the most suitable person as their king, and while it usually ran in families this was more because of the family having real worth, than anything else.

Anyway, after Gil-Galad's death, most of the Noldor looked either to Celeborn and Galadriel (who was Gil-Galad's aunt anyway) or Elrond, who was Gil-Galad's cousin by marriage. Maybe that's the reason why Elrond has Gil-Galad's ring... he was the closest, or most suitable, heir.

[JenB]

I forgot to add that after Gil-Galad's death, the Exiles were pardoned and most went home. So there was really no need for a high king, there weren't that many Noldor left and they could govern themselves in places like Rivendell, Lothlorien, and the Gray Havens.