Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn) II

[HairOfTheDog]

Repost – Highlights from chapters 1-5 copied from the original forum to the new one. To reference the full version, click here: Original Green Dragon Inn Within the first five chapters... disregard the reply numbers... they wont work.

Thank you ecurbh, for copying and editing our old thread so that the highlights could be moved here! Highlights of the first five chapters from the old thread are pasted into the first 5 replies here. For those of you who are just joining you… as of this post we are beginning Chapter 6.

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Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

Every week, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to appreciate and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.

[allthatisgolddoesnotglitter]

Ok, now for the tale.... Aragorn II, son of Arathorn II, lived from TA 2931-FO 120. He was the sixteenth and last Chieftan of the Dunadan of the North, and first King of the reunited Kingdom. Before he met up with our excellent hobbits he was raised secretly in Rivendell. In 2951 he met Arwen, daughter of Elrond, whom he would later marry after the WR. At age 20 Elrond revealed to him that he was the heir of Isildur and then Aragorn went off into the wild. He fought against Sauron in many ways for nearly 70 years and learned the customs of many peoples until he became the hardiest and wisest man of his time. Aragorn served in disguise Thengol of Rohan and Ecthelion of Gondor. His name in Gondor was Thorongil for he wore the star of the Rangers. His greatest feat in this time period was a raid on Umbar in which he destroyed a large part of the fleet of the Corsairs. In 2956 he met Gandalf and the two became good friends. After 13 years of searching intermittently at Gandalf's request Aragorn captured Gollum in 3017. The next year he met Frodo and the other hobbits in Bree. Now, was that a good tale? hope you enjoyed it!:-)

[allthatisgolddoesnotglitter]

One quick question: this may seem rather stupid but does anyone know where Cerin Amroth is? I know Arwen's grave is there but I have no earthly idea where it is.

[HairOfTheDog]

I did enjoy it! - It is a short tale, but a good one. Perhaps if I bring you another pint of ale and some longbottom leaf for that pipe you carry, you will tell another in time! -

I am reading my story. Seems there has been some trouble in town already... Merry has just come back from his walk and has quite a story to tell...

...At that moment they heard a door slam; then feet came running along the passage. Merry came in with a rush followed by Nob. He shut the door hastily, and leaned against it. He was out of breath. They stared at him in alarm for a moment before he gasped: 'I have seen them, Frodo! I have seen them! Black Riders!'

'Black Riders!' cried Frodo. 'Where?'

'Here. In the village. I stayed indoors for an hour. Then as you did not come back, I went out for a stroll. I had come back again and was standing just outside the light of the lamp looking at the stars. Suddenly I shivered and felt that something horrible was creeping near: there was a son of deeper shade among the shadows across the road, just beyond the edge of the lamplight. It slid away at once into the dark without a sound. There was no horse.'

'Which way did it go?' asked Strider, suddenly and sharply. Merry started, noticing the stranger for the first time. 'Go on!' said Frodo. 'This is a friend of Gandalf's. I will explain later...'

[HairOfTheDog]

I know this one! - It is in Lothlorien! - from the chapter Lothlorien:

'Behold! You are come to Cerin Amroth,' said Haldir. `For this is the heart of the ancient realm as it was long ago, and here is the mound of Amroth, where in happier days his high house was built. Here ever bloom the winter flowers in the unfading grass: the yellow elanor, and the pale niphredil. Here we will stay awhile, and come to the city of the Galadhrim at dusk.'

[HairOfTheDog]

The quote is Aragorn speaking.

[HairOfTheDog]

OK....I copied that text above from the Word version of the book that we all have. It is clearly different than my book.

Here is the quote from the book that I read first before searching for the quote to paste from Word: (silly to copy and paste without reading it)

"Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth," he [Aragorn] said [to Frodo], "and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that will still must tread, you and I. Come with me!" And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came never again as a living man.

Is this a difference in printings/editions, a goof up or what? I guess we need to be careful!

[JenB]

Unfortunately it's your goof, Hair. Both quotes are right - they are two different quotes. They're about two pages apart, with the Aragorn quote being the very end of the chapter and the Haldir thingie coming before.

[HairOfTheDog]

I wish I could delete posts. Both quotes are correct... I thought they were from the same spot but they are not. I am going to recede to Tooks Corner until I have sobered up. (even though I have not had any yet)

[HairOfTheDog]

Just to get back on topic... a cute story about breakfast.... (from a Knife in the Dark, on the morning they are preparing to leave. They look into their intended rooms in the morning to find that their beds had been slashed and overturned in the night)

'Never has such a thing happened in my time!' he cried, raising his hands in horror. 'Guests unable to sleep in their beds, and good bolsters ruined and all! What are we coming to?'

'Dark times,' said Strider. 'But for the present you may be left in peace, when you have got rid of us. We will leave at once. Never mind about breakfast: a drink and a bite standing will have to do. We shall be packed in a few minutes.'

Mr. Butterbur hurried off to see that their ponies were got ready, and to fetch them a 'bite'. But very soon he came back in dismay. The ponies had vanished! The stable-doors had all been opened in the night, and they were gone: not only Merry's ponies, but every other horse and beast in the place...

...'The two or three riding-ponies that there were in Bree were stabled in my yard, and they're gone. As for other animals, horses or ponies for draught or what not, there are very few of them in Bree, and they won't be for sale. But I'll do what I can. I'll rout out Bob and send him round as soon as may be.'

'Yes,' said Strider reluctantly, 'you had better do that. I am afraid we shall have to try to get one pony at least. But so ends all hope of starting early, and slipping away quietly! We might as well have blown a horn to announce our departure. That was part of their plan, no doubt.'

'There is one crumb of comfort,' said Merry, 'and more than a crumb, I hope: we can have breakfast while we wait - and sit down to it. Let's get hold of Nob!'

I am off for a bit to tend to my own ponies... Wish I had a Bob!

[cantbebought]

I agree. There are 3 things I wish had made it into the movie that I think would have added to the story. Unlike Bombadil and other stuff left out that would not have.

1) Gandalf's letter which confirms Frodo's trusting of Strider. Though they did move my favorite line "...if by life or death I can save you, I will" to the Council of Elrond and it was much stronger there.
2) Merry and Pippen weren't 'accidental' companions, they were Frodo's best friends and would not let him go without them. That fits in later at the Council when they insist on joining the Fellowship.
3) (and getting ahead) Gimli, Celeborn and Galadriel's exchange when they first meet in Lothlorien. It shows the distrust between the Dwarves and Elves was both ways and how Galadriel started to heal the rift with her kind words and how Gimli starts to fall for her.

[HairOfTheDog]

Agreed, those are things I would also have added to my Nine-hour version of the movie ;~D

And I agree that Strider's "if by my life, or death, I can save you I will" - Is much stronger in Rivendell than it would have been at Bree.

And in my further reading tonight, I am nursing a theory that when Aragorn joins the company, that is when Frodo begins to begins to show leadership, because Aragorn treats him that way. And, perhaps, following Aragorn gives him confidence and security that he has not felt since they started, alone and guideless in the wild.

[cantbebought]

See now, I don't see much leadership from Frodo til later when he tames Smeagol and meets Farimir. Yes, he show courage and other good qualities, but seems to defer to Gandalf and Strider (and earlier to Merry) for leadership. His plans were to leave the Shire with just Sam, Merry & Pippin wouldn't let him go alone.
Then on Amon Hen, he decides to go alone to Mordor, til Sam forces him to take him along. He is willing to accept the dangers for himself but not lead others in to peril.

[HairOfTheDog]

I agree, I just think that so far, he hadn't made any of the decisions, and I think he begins to here.

[allthatisgolddoesnotglitter]

Ok, thanks! sorry, I'm not much good at the geography. Now that I go back and read it that is where Cerin Amroth is, which makes sense since Arwen goes to Lothlorien to die.

[cantbebought]

Speaking of leadership....(Now for a little Elf bashing).....

'Gil-galad was an Elven-king.
Of him the harpers sadly sing:
the last whose realm was fair and free
between the Mountains and the Sea.'

'But long ago he rode away,
and where he dwelleth none can say;
for into darkness fell his star
in Mordor where the shadows are.'

One of the things that always struck me strange was that Gil-galad never married and had an hier. I mean really. His Uncle (Turgon), Father (Fingon), Grandfather (Fingolfin), GreatUncle (Feanor) & Great-Grandfather (Finwe) have all been killed in the wars against Morgorth and his Lieutenant Sauron. He ruled for 3,514 years and marches off to the biggest war in ages were, when he falls, the Noldor Kingdom in exile also fails.

Was this ever explained in any of the Lost Tales or letters?

[JenB]

Well, he probably never fell in love. If you're immortal, I bet you'd go to a lot more trouble making sure you love the right person. Not many Elves getting divorces... in fact the only one I remember as having even remarried after his wife died was Finwe, father of Feanor. Maybe if you're immortal, time runs differently and you think there's no big rush. A lot of Elves have very small families, too. That's probably why they didn't completely cover Middle-Earth. Imagine a race that reproduced at the same rate as humans, but never died and never stopped being able to have children!

Incidentally, Finrod Felagund never married either. He was probably the greatest king of the Noldor of all time, second only to Thingol as a Middle-Earth elf king. (Gil-Galad, becoming king after both of them were dead, can't really compare.) Thanks for quoting those verses, though we're a bit early for them yet. Still, they're beautiful!

[Valpal1]

Pulease! Everybody hug your lonely Ranger today!

Do you suppose it came from spending too much time with whiny socialists at University?

[HairOfTheDog]

hehehehe

[cantbebought]

They're from "A Knife in the Dark" We're doing 3 chapters at a time acording to HotDog.

Finrod Felagund was never High King of the Noldor, but I agree he was the best of the Noldor. Honest, couragous, a Great King. He keeps his oath and pays a Debt-of-Honor to Beren, sacrificing his kingdom and even his life to help in a hopeless quest dispite the treats of the sons of Feanor.

I wonder if it may also have something to do with the Doom of Mandros and not wanting to perpetuate the curse on thier children?

[JenB]

Mmm, possible, but I really think it was more a matter of not finding the right girl. Finrod left the girl he loved behind in Valinor; I believe she was not of the Noldor and wouldn't leave Middle-Earth. Gil-Galad is anyone's guess. I won't venture to claim that he had any one particular motive since we just don't know.