The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

-----------------------------------------

Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yay! - we are back up too!! No I haven't seen that! Who the heck is she?

[JenB]

That's Eowyn!

[DonnerT]

Brother-daughter or Sister-daughter?

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, I have seen other photos of Eowyn like this one...

I think the gal you link to above, although I would like to believe this Ringer Spy, is too young to be a good Eowyn... I think she is just a cutie-pie extra

[DonnerT]

And this gal's hair is too dark.

[JenB]

Yeah, you're right - silly me, I didn't even notice that the picture didn't look that much like the others we've seen of Eowyn.

[HairOfTheDog]

Miranda Otto

Otto portrays Eowyn, niece of King Theoden and sister of Eomer.

Miranda Otto's recent performances include What Lies Beneath and The Thin Red Line. Other credits include Kin, In the Winter Dark, Dead Letter Office, Doing Time for Patsy Kline, and True Love and Chaos.

SNIP

From the Official Site (flash)

[TigerTale]

it would seem to me that God has a dim view of kings!

Well, yes and no, it would seem.

The NIV study notes point out that Moses anticipated the people's desire for a king (Dt. 17:18-20) and that in the book of 1 Samuel, God both commands Samuel to appoint a king and condemns the people's desire for a king as sinful. The resolution to the tension, according to the same notes, seems to be that it was God's will to give the people a king who behaved in obedience to the covenant. The people, however, wanted a king so they could be like the surrounding nations--someone who would give them the security they should have drawn from God's covenant.

I think it's reasonable to say that the kings of Isreal were ideally reflections of the Great King to come. So perhaps God objects to what people tend to make of flawed, human kingship--not the institution itself.

That being said, until the return of the King, I am bound and determined to hang on to republican government. It seems to have a better track record given the current state of human nature.

[TigerTale]

Trust me, it's so much better than Xanth... for one thing, the thirteenth book is actually distinguishable from the first in ways besides character names and the puns.

I wanted to finish the whole Xanth series--truely I did. But I once I had plowed through three or four books, it just seemed kind of pointless to go on--mostly for the reasons you have mentioned.

I really liked the Gap that everyone kept forgetting about, however.

[Penny1]

If I may insert myself into the discussion, I agree with you, Burr. I think that Boromir did not intend to take the ring by force from the beginning. I do think that all along he hoped to pursuade the company to come with him to Minas Tirith, therefore bringing the ring to his city, but not to take it for himself. However, the shock to him over his attempt to take the ring by force, especially by overpowering someone as weak and small as a hobbit, was clearly an indication that the ring was exerting its corrupting influence over him. That he succumbed to that long before anyone else did was his failing, his weakness, but that doesn't mean he originally intended to do evil from the beginning.

And the lesson of the story is, as goes Boromir, so go all who remain exposed to the ring's influence (or in Denethor's and Saruman's case, Sauron's influence) for long. The ring seems to find each person's weakness and work its corruption through that weakness. I think someone pointed that out a while ago on this thread, so I won't belabor the point.

I've enjoyed reading the Boromir discussion--sorry I couldn't join in until now.

[carton253]

But Harvey Weinstein is involved with the Lord of the Rings... he was the first producer Peter Jackson went to (that's before New Line bought the w-i-p). Weinstein has been involved in throwing the mud, but mostly for In the Bedroom. But Weinstein has executive producer credits.

But what do you expect from Clinton's most ardent supporter.

[carton253]

Good try right back at you. You have to take into consideration why Boromir went to the council. Faramir says to Frodo that Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir thought Isildur's bain was a weapon to be used to defend Minas Tirith. Faramir goes on to say that they didn't know it was a ring. But they thought it was a powerful weapon.

Faramir also went on to say the following about Boromir. (And Faramir knew his brother) That first of all, it offended Boromir greatly that his father was not king of Gondor. And that chaffed on him.

So when the riddling dreams came to both Faramir and Boromir, Faramir would have gone, but Boromir put himself forward. Boromir came to Rivendell to find the weapon so that he could defend Minas Tirith and bring himself glory.

Now, Sam said that in Lorien, he knew that Boromir planned to take the ring. Sam was not a mind reader. He learned that from Boromir himself. Maybe not in words, but body language and looks can be stronger than words.

I don't have my copy of FOTR here, but there is a point while they are floating down the Anduin that Boromir slips and gives himself away. He covers it up by saying he didn't mean it. (I'll try to find it before tonight and post it either on the thread or I'll freep mail you)

Boromir spends his time trying to convince Aragorn to go to Minas Tirath. When Boromir learns that Frodo will go onto Mordor, he feels betrayed and then has no choice but to take the ring.

Now, the ring did work against Boromir. But it could only work against him because it found some hold in him.

James writes in his epistle: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I am a great defender of Boromir here on this thread because I don't think this one failing makes Boromir a bad man. He desperately wants to save Minas Tirith.

So, on the banks of the Anduin, Boromir makes one desperate grab for the ring. I grant that... but, I don't think it was a moment of madness. I think his plan the whole time was to take the "weapon of the enemy" back to Minas Tirith to defend it and give himself glory.

What say you?

[carton253]

When we've finished discussing Boromir.. we have to find another one. These discussions are fun...

[carton253]

one=another subject.

[HairOfTheDog]

Good morning carton! Hullo!

[TigerTale]

When we've finished discussing Boromir.. we have to find another one. These discussions are fun...

How 'bout Elrond & Family?

[JenB]

Denethor-bashing! I think we covered Elrond's Dysfunctional Family last week, didn't we? That doesn't mean we can't do it again, of course, but we haven't really bashed Denethor lately, and he deserves it.

[Overtaxed]

It's all Denethor's fault! :)

[carton253]

Yeah... I just got done reading the Pyre of Denethor last night. Even I find it hard to say something nice about the guy.

I don't care that Denethor thinks the palantir has revealed to him the death of the West. I don't care that Denethor is grief stricken about both Boromir and Faramir.

There is a war going on... and Denthor's duty is be on the walls fighting. Not dissolved in self-pity. Not descending into madness and grief. He is the Steward of Gondor, and the people are looking to him for direction and strength. Stand-up and do your duty.

I think Denethor's failure to do his duty is so contrasted against Frodo's valiant courage. Frodo is afraid too. Frodo thinks his life is over. But, still Frodo goes on. It will take Sauron himself to stop him. Valiant little Frodo. And Sam!

[JenB]

Hurrah! Someone we can all bash! I'll try to think of something really cool to say while I'm at class. Looking forward to it.