The New Hobbit Hole

[Overtaxed]

AATCHOOOO! :)

[Ted]

Lazy/newbie question, perhaps somebody can help me - my wife wants to know why there was Elvish writing on the entrance door to the caves of Moria? Why not something in the dwarven tongue if it was their home? Did the elves build it first?

Thanks!

[HairOfTheDog]

You don't like the flowers? - I'm sorry I thought you would...

[HairOfTheDog]

Wait a minute - I just read your post again... I had "director's cut FoTR" in my head when you mentioned "more Boromir"... Boromir footage in TTT and RoTK? - hmmm.. yes...I suppose we may get the memories of Faramir and Denethor.

[Penny1]

Oh cool, a question I can answer...I think. The reason it was written in elvish was because the door/gate to Moria was built so that the Elves that lived in Hollin could visit the dwarves that lived inside the mountain. Hollin was the area surrounding that side of the mountain where the gate was. The dwarves, if they wanted to visit the elves, would just go out the door--it opened outward without any password or anything. And the elves were the only ones who would be passing into Moria from the other side, so they would be the only ones speaking a password to get inside that way.

Does that make sense?

(Jen, please correct me and fill in any relevant data, okay?)

[ksen]

With a certain level of secrecy, the top brass at New Line Cinema just got back from a visit to New Zealand. As the rumor has it, they were there for an update on the status of The Two Towers and to see a 'rough-cut' of the film. The information we have tells us they absolutely loved what they saw. Most seemed to agree that it was even better then Fellowship of the Ring.

C'mon HOTD, out with it. How is it? What's different? Do they show the flying Nazgul? We promise not to tell PJ you reneged on your promise! ;^)

-Kevin

[HairOfTheDog]

hehehehehe! - I can only report what "they" say, and no more!

[Overtaxed]

You don't like the flowers? - I'm sorry I thought you would

Hair, I thought you knew by now that I just like to cause trouble! :)

[Tuor]

OT has the wings

Are you talking about the (non-existant) Balrog Wings? ;)

Tuor

[SuziQ]

Is that in the book or the movie?

I was discussing the scene in the movie when Gandalf and Elrond were talking in Rivendell. Elrond seems to scoff at the idea of men being strong enough to protect the Ring. He recounts in flashback how Isildur was too weak (and greedy) to destroy the Ring at the time of the battle where Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's hand. I'm not sure in which book this information may be found.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Glad to see you two getting along today, I don't come here for bashing, there is more than enough of that on the other threads.

[Tuor]

I think that's part of the problem...some arguments about the movie, some about the book, and still some a combination of both.

As I've never seen the movie and doubt I ever will, you can assume I'm talking about the books. The very fact this sort of thing has to be established should explain a bit as to why I don't want to see the movie (a dead topic for me, BTW).

So, I won't jump on you over whatever you think about Elves in the movie, since those are Jackson Elves, not Tolkien Elves. :)

Tuor

[JenB]

Jackson Elves are really quite close to Tolkien Elves, except a little too blond and their ears are more pointed than Tolkien's Elves. Oh, and Jackson's Elves don't seem to have all those epics and lays and stuff. Otherwise they're the same.

[JenB]

Penny, the door of Moria is written with Elf-runes because Dwarves use Elf-runes and Elvish. Dwarvish is a secret language and they do not seem to have any runes of their own; they like Daeron's Runes (Cirth) better than Feanor's (Tengwar).

OT, as for the 'fallen' debate, the Elves are not perfect. No one says they are. They disobey the Valar and certainly sin, so it would seem they too are fallen. The Fall is not depicted in ME, but it seems a fact. As to what fallen means, according to the catechism I learned as a child, it means that everyone is "corrupt in every part of his being". Goes for Elves as well as Men, I suppose.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes, I am sure OT could serve up a great batch of Balrog wings! Or elf-wings if she could get them.

OT does not only bash movie elves. She bashes book elves too... and I see no difference between the two... as Jen already pointed out they are captured very well in the film that we shouldn't bother trying to talk you into seeing! But Took's corner would not be the same without her!

[Penny1]

Ping for Post #5354 above....guess I was WAY off on that one...I should know better than to try to answer these questions, lol...

[JenB]

No, you really weren't that far off. The Elves of Eregion did get along with the Dwarves of Moria, very well, and that's why they made the doors. It's probably also why the Door has the curvy Tengwar script rather than the runic Cirth. (If anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, the letters on the Ring are Tengwar. The map-letters from Hobbit are Cirth. Cirth is easy to translate to English.)

[HairOfTheDog]

Hi LCS! - Been busy lately? - You have been scarce... Don't worry about us, hobbits have very polite flame wars, even when debating things as sacrosanct as the elves. And all flame wars are finished with pints! Which is how it should be.

[JenB]

Just as long as we don't try to dose the flames with the pints - waste of good ale, and a fire hazard! Is ale alcoholic enough to burn?

[HairOfTheDog]

hehehe - no - ale will not burn! safe for dousing in an emergency!