Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
That was just a brief and un-called-for bout of socialist-like resentment of the upper classes and all their privilege and pampering. I am over it now. It was late and I was weak. I am sure Arwen-the-breathless will make a fine mom ;~D
I will just go back to looking at the pretty pictures now.
Boromir spent the whole trip (from Rivendell to the Palen ??) trying to convince the Fellowship to go to Minas Tirith. And when he realized that Frodo would take the ring to Mordor, he had no choice but to physically take the ring from Frodo.
A madness might have come over Boromir at that time. For Boromir knew what he had done was wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that at Lorien Sam knew the Boromir would take the ring. Now, they were 30 days in Lorien, then down the river... (never minding that Boromir watched Frodo the whole time)
So, the madness manifested itself... but Boromir's intent from the time he left Gondor (110 day journey) to the time he tried to take the ring from Frodo was to get the ring to Minas Tirith and use it to protect the city against the forces of Mordor.
What say you?
Because they are the best kind of heros. So much to overcome during the course of the story.
He is that!
Actually, Rhett Butler in Gone With The Wind addresses this situation with Scarlett. He tells her that when parents have a hard go in life (Scarlett during the reconstruction), the parent always tries to spare their children the hardship they have endured. This turns the children into soft, spoiled things since hardships are what shapes character.
I don't know if I would take parenting tips from Rhett Butler... but, from observations in life... Rhett's not too far off the mark.
Or the poodle!
I don't have any faith in the Academy. (I know I'm going to get flamed for this.) If LOTR does well in the Oscars,that would mean that the Academy and I might actually agree on something...and that scares me. :)
He made the point that the material that made up the image gradually decreased in value the further down the image you went. Nebuchadnezzar was the golden part of the image, his kingdom was an absolute monarchy. The empires that came after, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome and eventually the revived Roman Empire are all weaker forms of government.
Well, to make a long story short(or is it to make a short story long?) he made the case that it would be a democracy that would make up the empire represented by the feet of clay and iron. It was his contention that God has a dim view of democracies.
Any thoughts about that? I know this had nothing to do with Tolkien so if you would like to take this conversation to The Neverending Story that would be ok with me.
-ksen
But then they find their hard work rewarded and live happily ever after...what kind of message is that sending to our kids? "Nose to the grindstone, son, and you'll have a throne of your own someday." Children need to be slapped upside the face early on with the cold hard facts of life. Give them heroes like Agamemnon -- survives ten years of brutal war only to return home and get hacked to death in the bathtub with an axe by his cheating wife. Now that's reality! :-)
Boromir's very first idea at the council was to use the ring, and although he heard the reasons why not, he did not really believe them. He accepted the decision of the council more because he was outvoted than because he was convinced. I don't think the idea of using the ring disappeared... And he kept his doubts close, to be sure, which worked with everyone but Galadriel.
And lets not forget, Tolkien tells us through Galadriel that Boromir will be the first, but not the only one of the fellowship to be taken by the evil. If Boromir was to be the only weak link, Frodo would not have had to leave everyone behind, only Boromir. Frodo was told that one by one it would take all of them (except for our Sam) If the lure of the Ring is as evil as Tolkien tells us it is, it would have found a way of corrupting all of them in time. Let us not forget the way the end plays out.
So Boromir was only the first to go, and his susceptability to the temptation was not inherently evil, but was formed out of his patriotism and desire to find something, anything, that would save his people. He had his father's distrust of the wisdom of wizards and elves perhaps, and temptation re-organizes our thoughts and priorities.
Paul McCartney has a best original song "Vanilla Skies" so he'll win because the Academy always votes for the rock icon. Bob Dylan? Come on!
Director, Actor, Supporting Actress, Adapted Screenplay, Picture will all go to Beautful Mind. Robert Altman may sneak in for Gosford Park.
I think Lord of the Rings is hands-down the best picture... on the strength of the acting job that Jackson got out of his principle actors. Wow! But, Jackson has committed an unpardonable crime. He was both successful and excellent. Ask Spielberg! It took him making Shindler's List to force the Academy to give him what he should have had for Jaws, Raiders, and ET. Best Director and Best Picture. (I would have given him Best Director for ET on the strength of the children... it takes a great Director to wrangle that out of children consistently.)
But the Academy may do the right thing and give Jackson and LOTR what it deserves... (and I will stand up and give the Academy a standing ovation if they do)
There's no heat... it's a discussion!
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