Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Yes, we certainly need some real heroes. If only Ayn Rand had turned her pen to fantasy...
To show that it is deeds, not just a face, that trips my trigger!
To put in another two cents for home rule, Aragorn may well have issued an edict banning outside interference, but it was the local populace taking up arms against their oppressors that finally restored freedom to the Shire. Nothing quite like a little home-grown revolution!
Lest you think, however, that I tear through fantasy novels continually screaming "Death to the aristos!", I should say that I am a long-time fan of British literature and film, many of the best stories from which focus on the upper classes, so I certainly do understand the appeal. Don't take my libertarian opposition to the feudalism of LOTR too seriously!
Not a problem.
Somewhat off-putting...
...and make people with a lot of religious values want to throw the book across the room.
but you've sold me! :-) Actually I think I'll stick to books that make a point, good, bad, or ugly. It's been a long time since I've read fantasy -- I was big into D&D in high school when I read my first fantasy novel (The Sword of Shannara, a Tolkien rip-off) -- and I've only recently re-read LOTR because of the movie. Where does one go after Tolkien? Any suggestions?
Other than those, hmm... older stuff can be good. Without knowing your tastes I can't recommend anything specific.
Pippin lies down to sleep and can't because he is restless from having touched the Palantir, right? He's trying desperately to talk to Merry about it and Merry basically brushes him off because he is tired. Merry doesn't get just how bad the situation is with Pippin. He just wants to sleep. So Pippin quits reaching out to Merry reluctantly (He even says "It doesn't help much to get no more from you than a you-can't-have-it-so-go-to-sleep!")
So, after all Pippin had done for Merry during their abduction by the orcs, Merry doesn't have a moment to give to Pippin.
Alright...on the NZ thread, I mentioned that when everyone else is staring at Pippin after he gave that cry while looking at the Palantir, Merry turns away. I thought at first that he turned away to spare his friend embarrassment. Now, however, I wonder if he didn't turn away out of shame, for having not listened to his friend, that had done so much for him.
In the past the change from republic to monarchy has been occasioned by invasion (e.g. the Germanic invasions of the Roman Empire), civil war between social classes (e.g. the Greek city-states), and by people demanding safety and subsidies from their political leaders (e.g. Rome). The change from monarchy to stable republic has only come when people are willing to restrict the state and keep it weak.
It seems to me that it has been demonstrated that autocracies are the natural form of government for all but the most virtuous and self-restrained peoples, a category that no longer includes the citizens of our country. For the rest, the Ring of Power will come to Rule Them All.
/End of Rant.
That sounds plausible. But Merry should give himself a break. He was tired and he didn't know what the palantir was. How was he supposed to know that it was dangerous or that Pippin was not just being a Took? :)
The plan isto hang out at our Yahoo Hobbit Hole chat room. Come join us!
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